What happened to Case?

[cortopar]

The vast majority of Case knives fall in the $30 - $75 range, and are made by the tens or hundreds of thousands. An average well made custom is an order of magnitude more, and a GEC (if you can get it at MSRP) is about double.

I think Case knives are generally a good value, and if you’re judging them by a more utilitarian standard, an excellent value. I have new and old, and think the new are at least as well finished as the old in most cases.

 

[el gigantor]

First time I've seen a cat with my name. Must be a cool cat.

A friend of mine has a cat named Vincent as well. It’s a sphynx hairless, which is a polarizing breed for sure.

 

[JD Bear]

This has been an interesting thread to read through. A few months ago I started a thread asking about everyone's experience of A. Wright & Sons knives. The end result was that most people seemed to describe their flaws about the same way, but for some people those flaws made the knives completely unappealing, and for others they were all minor and they loved the knives.

There's a lot more variety when talking about Case quality (from 'poorly made, worse than Rough Rider' to 'flawless, better than GEC'), but I suspect that there are a couple of factors going into why everyone thinks about this differently. One issue is how much impact fit and finish variations have on the customer's appreciation of the knife. How much actual variation the manufacturer allows past QC is a separate issue. Finally, there is an emotional / sentimental / identity element that definitely colors these conversations.

Customer's View of F&F - fit and finish really matters to some people, and even bringing it up seems to irritate other people. So the exact same knife may be viewed as a failure by one person, and admired as nearly flawless by someone else. This could explain why J JD Bear was unhappy with their knife, and Case QC thought it was fine - perhaps JD has a more stringent standard than Case does. Doesn't mean either one is wrong - but good for the customer to know when a company doesn't share their minimum expectations.

Manufacturers Variance in F&F - poor QC doesn't mean that every knife is equally defective - it means that there is a lot of variation. Poor QC might result in one knife that has high F&F, and another that doesn't. So, just because yours was flawless, doesn't mean that someone else must be wrong when they observe low quality.

Emotional / Sentimental / Identity - if someone likes knives, and looks at a Case, they may not have any factors involved other than the knife itself. But if someone has "I'm a Case knife fan/collector" as part of their personal identity, there's a lot more at stake than just the knife in their hand. Any criticism of Case is now received as a personal attack, not just a discussion about a knife. (This is hardly unique to Case - it happens with any brand that inspires this kind of emotional connection.)

All the Case knives people are posting in this thread look great! I never had Case knives growing up, and my Dad didn't carry Case, so I don't have much connection to them other than thinking they look good and I like that they are American-made. I've thought on several occasions to buy a Case, but every one of them at the store had enough F&F flaws that I didn't get one. I want to like Case, and the older Case knives I've seen seem pretty solid. But I just haven't held a new one in my hands that was worth the money for me. I need a knife to be functional, and all the Cases I've looked at would pass that test. But I also want it to be aesthetically pleasing (which very much includes F&F for me), and none of the new Cases I've handled quite made it there for me. I think the ones I looked at would also have looked really good in forum photos, but when there are gaps or centering problems or whatever, it just kills it, for me. YMMV.

-Tyson

Well written post Tyson. I think one of the reasons this got under my skin so much is that I've seen what their warranty department can do. I sent a $40 trapper in for some work and it came back absolutely flawless...I'm talking perfect GEC type of work. I reckon the point I'm making is if a company sells products for that amount of money, they should be able to sharpen the dang thing and have the ability to peen pins correctly. If that's not the case, stick to the yella handle budget knives and people can see all the flaws as "character".

 

[Lansky1]

Case knives manufacturing is still in business? I thought they went under like Camilus, Queen Cutlery and Schrade cutlery.

I just did a random eBay search for Case knife & filtered the search so it returned only "new" knives, and it came back with over 20,000 listings, so yeah, I think they're still making knives ...

 

[Bastler]

First time I've seen a cat with my name. Must be a cool cat.

His full name is Vincent Black Shadow, because he's black and shiny and he rumbles like an old Vincent.

 

[Quiet]

It tells me one of two things....either I'm crazy for expecting such an expensive knife to be well made or Case doesn't know what they're talking about. I actually think they didn't have parts to fix it and they blew me off since that was mentioned in a phone call. I inquired if they could swap it with something else and apparently I thought that was a better idea than they did. It'll end up in the trading forum when I stop being lazy...

Yep. If they have looked at that poor fit and finish and said "Right, this is good. I don't know what he's complaining about", that tells you that that's the best they can do and they think it looks fine. For the record, every Case I've ever bought has had an asymmetrical edge that looks like it was ground by a guy who was on his first day of the job, and my knife was his first one. I don't believe Case knows how to make an edge look good, plus, more than a few of mine have had rounded tips.

Customer's View of F&F - fit and finish really matters to some people, and even bringing it up seems to irritate other people. So the exact same knife may be viewed as a failure by one person, and admired as nearly flawless by someone else. This could explain why J JD Bear was unhappy with their knife, and Case QC thought it was fine - perhaps JD has a more stringent standard than Case does. Doesn't mean either one is wrong - but good for the customer to know when a company doesn't share their minimum expectations.
-Tyson

Tyson, you make a lot of good points in your whole post, but I wanted to respond to the above part. I think you'll find that many of us are collectors, and as collectors, the last thing we "need" is another knife. My life? No steak will go uncut, no mail will go unopened, no threads will be left hanging on a shirt hem if I don't buy another Case, GEC, or (insert one of several modern brands I favor here) for the rest of my life. I have more knives than I'll ever be able to use. So, when I buy a new knife, it better be NICE. Fit and finish better be on point. Any flaws had better be minor, and for me personally, that goes the same for a $45 Case, as it does for a $100 GEC. I don't want to see gaps, wobbly blades, dull edges*, poorly fitted shields, etc. If I do, they're going back. "Well, it's still a good cutt'n tool!" Don't care, I don't need any more cutting tools. When I buy a knife, the details better be right or it goes back. Anyway, that's my view on it, and yes, I've seen some folks say that those of us harping on fit and finish need to stop talking about it. To that I say, no. No, I don't think I will. When we give companies a pass to do shoddy work, it rewards no one.


* Something that has happened to me with both Case AND GEC, GEC definitely isn't immune to this.

 

[Tyson A Wright]

I have more knives than I'll ever be able to use. So, when I buy a new knife, it better be NICE. Fit and finish better be on point.

Yep, pretty much what I was trying to say, too:

I need a knife to be functional, and all the Cases I've looked at would pass that test. But I also want it to be aesthetically pleasing (which very much includes F&F for me), and none of the new Cases I've handled quite made it there for me.

I still have my very first knife, given to me at age six: a Craftsman Peanut. It is poorly designed, and not that well made, but will do nearly every cutting task I need to do with a pocket knife. So I'm not only buying knives to cut things - they need to do that, sure, but also need to bring something more than that. Good design, good materials, good craftsmanship - if it's missing any of those, I don't need it.

-Tyson

 

[JohnDF]

I have more knives than I'll ever be able to use. So, when I buy a new knife, it better be NICE.

Excellent point.
This is why I pass on cheaper knives like Rough Ryder, Mam, Opinel, and any cheap over-seas knife.
I have enough users not to have to buy cheaper knives. I want quality and looks for my money now, so I start with Case.

 

[hornetguy]

I have more knives than I'll ever be able to use. So, when I buy a new knife, it better be NICE. Fit and finish better be on point.

I understand and agree with those sentiments.
The problem I see is that the company you are buying from does not build to that level consistently. And, I don't think they claim to...
They make a goodly number of knives that are borderline flawless, but for the most part, they are less than that... which reflects in the price point at which they sell.
It would be similar to buying a Chevy Malibu, expecting it to be as "nice" a vehicle as a top of the line Lexus. I would not expect that... and if that level of fit/finish/performance was what I insisted on, I would not look for it at the Chevy dealer.

 

[Quiet]

I understand and agree with those sentiments.
The problem I see is that the company you are buying from does not build to that level consistently. And, I don't think they claim to...
They make a goodly number of knives that are borderline flawless, but for the most part, they are less than that... which reflects in the price point at which they sell.
It would be similar to buying a Chevy Malibu, expecting it to be as "nice" a vehicle as a top of the line Lexus. I would not expect that... and if that level of fit/finish/performance was what I insisted on, I would not look for it at the Chevy dealer.

Well, really, you have just described the issue that a lot of people have with Case in the above bolded. I agree that it's somewhat less of a problem because they are cheap, but it's still understandable that folks pass on them because at some point it's just throwing money away. I can tell you that I personally do not buy many Case knives these days, because most of the ones I have handled at both my local Ace Hardware stores that stock a good supply have issues of various types.

I WILL say that sometimes, a pattern will grab me, and I'll be able to overlook some flaws. As a perfect example, I recently purchased a #6375 from the Ace nearest my house because I felt bad for always pestering the guy who works the key counter to come open the cabinet for me. Then, he has to wait around while I peruse the selection only to usually say "Alright, I'm good" and then leave with nothing. Anyway, I get it home, all three blades have excessive blade rub, and the middle blade, the chunky Wharncliffe blade has excessive side to side play. Also, the grinds are hilarious trash, however, the bone covers and shield fitment were decent, and all three blades WERE sharp, so I shrugged and decided to keep it especially after I got a discount, making it something like $51. A big chunky knife that was cheap, and cheaply made. The sad part is that these issues I describe? All five of the ones they had in stock had all of these issues. Therefore, I have to believe that that's just what Case finds acceptable. In any case, I scratched that "Maybe I'm overlooking..." itch with Case, and won't be buying any more of them anytime soon. I'm good. Scratched that "poorly made knife" itch and called it a day.

 

[DavidV81]

To me Case is hit/miss. It took me 3 sodbuster jr’s to get a decent one, and even it was a gap between one of the liners and the spring, but it’s a user that is easily replaced. It was only $30, so I can live with that. However, if I’m spending $70+ on a knife, I’m not going to buy a Case and hope for a good knife. This is where I wish GEC would have another run of the 71’s. If you want a good cheap user, you can’t go wrong with a peanut or sodbuster jr with case for the money ($50 or less).

 

[Tyson A Wright]

Excellent point.
This is why I pass on cheaper knives like Rough Ryder, Mam, Opinel, and any cheap over-seas knife.
I have enough users not to have to buy cheaper knives. I want quality and looks for my money now, so I start with Case.

Opinel may be inexpensive, but the one I own, and the handful I've handled that other people own, are all really well made. While Case knives just don't have fit and finish that works for me, I will probably buy at least one more Opinel sometime (would love one in olive wood).

-Tyson

 

[Mayonardo]

There seems to be roughly two schools of thought separating GEC and Case knives: “almost flawless” was one “negative” term used to describe GEC knives. I’d go so far as to say that the best of anything is almost flawless, and for Case, “well it’s cheap.“
If it is cheap you want and you think throwing $30-$40 away on a cheaply made knife is actually cheap, then Case it is. Not for me.

 

[Prester John]

Excellent point.
This is why I pass on cheaper knives like Rough Ryder, Mam, Opinel, and any cheap over-seas knife.
I have enough users not to have to buy cheaper knives. I want quality and looks for my money now, so I start with Case.

I understand that, but as for me, I prefer my Opinel over almost all of my knives. Certainly more than Case or GEC. "But that's just me...."

 

[solphilos]

I’m fortunate enough that I’m able to buy most of my Case knives in person, which means I can sort through the retailers stock and pick the best of the bunch.

However, I rarely have to do that since most of the knives I’ve sampled have been pretty well made by my standards.


Then again, I don’t set ridiculous standards for knives in this class and price range. I don’t bring out the calipers to check for perfect blade centering, don’t mind minor blade rub with $30 patterns that feature two blades on a single spring, and don’t even care about a poor dye job.


Edge bevels aside, these are about the worst “flaws” I’ve seen on the vast amount of samples I’ve handled in person. Overall and anecdotally, Case appears to make a pretty well-made, functional knife at a consistent level, given one doesn’t demand absolute perfection.


Now, about those edge bevels, I’ll defend every complaint on that subject because I’ve experienced it myself; uneven grinds, asymmetrical angles and rounded tips. A knife exists for one purpose, to separate and penetrate objects: when I purchase an item and have to modify it in order for it to fulfill its purpose, well, it leaves me a bit vexed to say the least.


Still, I’ll continue to purchase Case because I’m able to overlook this particular issue and remedy it myself and feel that in the end I’m getting a good value for my money. I don’t fault those that don’t feel this way because well, it’s your money and you should be satisfied with the way it’s spent because this hobby is about fun after all.

 

[hornetguy]

I’m fortunate enough that I’m able to buy most of my Case knives in person, which means I can sort through the retailers stock and pick the best of the bunch.

However, I rarely have to do that since most of the knives I’ve sampled have been pretty well made by my standards.


Then again, I don’t set ridiculous standards for knives in this class and price range. I don’t bring out the calipers to check for perfect blade centering, don’t mind minor blade rub with $30 patterns that feature two blades on a single spring, and don’t even care about a poor dye job.


Edge bevels aside, these are about the worst “flaws” I’ve seen on the vast amount of samples I’ve handled in person. Overall and anecdotally, Case appears to make a pretty well-made, functional knife at a consistent level, given one doesn’t demand absolute perfection.


Now, about those edge bevels, I’ll defend every complaint on that subject because I’ve experienced it myself; uneven grinds, asymmetrical angles and rounded tips. A knife exists for one purpose, to separate and penetrate objects: when I purchase an item and have to modify it in order for it to fulfill its purpose, well, it leaves me a bit vexed to say the least.


Still, I’ll continue to purchase Case because I’m able to overlook this particular issue and remedy it myself and feel that in the end I’m getting a good value for my money. I don’t fault those that don’t feel this way because well, it’s your money and you should be satisfied with the way it’s spent because this hobby is about fun after all.

Well put....

 

[Will Power]

I just missed another GEC drop, gone in under 10 seconds. I think I'm just going to stick with Case. I think if they limited a new release to 200 per cover they'd be gone quickly also.

Soon as I see the word 'drop' being used about anything it's usually a sign of a contrived frenzy being created & perpetuated The real fuel behind most of it is the expectation to sell on at a vastly inflated price and quickly. The quicker the drop vanishes, the more it becomes wanted etc.

Never bothered to count or 'catalogue' my knives it's a task that doesn't interest me, but I suspect I have more GEC knives than CASE. I like both of them as they have different styles, would not say GEC knives are always better made than CASE, in fact experience has shown me they are rather less durable, but they both have different characteristics or feel to them, which is good .

Price is a very unreliable diviner of quality, a costly knife should be better but this is not always the case and many Customs can have clear faults in finish etc. Making an analogy between CASE and Opinel is a little skewed in my view. Opinel is an old and rightly revered marque but it's a genius of simplicity: no liners, no spring, almost always wood handles, locking collar, usually same type of blade and set sizes, good carbon good stainless and like SAKs automated production and very reliable cutting prowess. CASE make huge numbers of patterns/sizes in an array of materials & handles that have springs liners etc etc. If you want to make an analogy lets pit GEC v Fontenille-Pataud French maker of Lags & other Traditional French patterns. Unfair you say F-P are more expensive! But ARE they? If you can't get the GEC you want after the 10 sec drop then you'll pay through the nose, often the knives are reserved before people even know what the scales will be, incomprehensible. Whereas you can choose an F-P select the scales, steel, finish you want and you'll have it delivered worldwide in a week or two, often sooner. They also have a properly organised warranty programme, I've been less than impressed with GEC on that front and very satisfied with CASE when I had to return a knife from Europe to America.

CASE make a superior Medium or Small Stockman to anything GEC has put out so far but that could change, not a bad thing either

 

[Will Power]

I like this Damascus Swayback Gent, superb finish.

 

[solphilos]

I like this Damascus Swayback Gent, superb finish.

Indeed
Of the knives I’ve handled, the Barlows, mini Trappers and Sawybacks seem to be amongst Case’s best regarding fit and finish. I’ve only handled one Tribal Lock, but it is very good as well.

 

[Misplaced Hillbilly]

Well I just threw all of my Case knives away,except the one that belonged to my uncle.
Some were gifts from people I hold very dear and I cherished those knives,but I bit the bullet and tossed them. I couldn't even bear the thought of someone else ending up with them so into the river they went