What has happened to Cold Steel?

Manowar

Manowar

Joined
Mar 12, 2003
Messages
119
I have just ben looking at www.ltspecpro.com which is Cold Steels home page,and i looked at their old production line as well as the new models for 2003. What makes me react is their steel of choice. Earlier they always used ether their own Carbon V steel or some of the tough AUS 6,AUS 8 or AUS 10 steels in their knives.
But now,with more old models they have switched to cheap and in my opinion mouch poorer steels like their "420 Sub zero quenched" and other low quality steels.

First for example, they changed tried and proven designs like the peace keepers from AUS 8 to 420.Now they have changed among others,the Recon 1 folding series from AUS 8 to 440a steel!
Why have they lowered their standard in generaly? I have always baught Cold Steel knives because they have always used high premium steels in their knives,but it seems like they have lowering the bar for their knives.
However it is good they are still making some new knives with the good old proven Carbon V steel like their monster Laredo Bowie,which i would like to add to my collection!!

Manowar
 
I would imagine what you are seeing is a switch to steel that give a greater costs savings.
 
Yes,it gives us knife buyers lower prices,and that is of course good. But i think Cold Steel should take a step forward and upgrade their steels to for example VG-10,rather than downgrade them. That brings up the prices for sure,but it also gives so mouch better knives.
I(now i speak for myself)would rather buy a knife with a VG-10 or AUS 8 blade steel thay may be close to twice as expencive,but i will now for sure that they are twice as tough as the inexpencive 420 Sub Zero blades.:D

Manowar
 
Cold Steel never was anything more then a brand name. Their products are all made by other makers and it looks like those makers have decided to market their own brands of quality production knives. CS has probably had to go well down the food chain to obtain junk to market under their brand name. Their old Carbon V stuff (which I believe was all actually made by Camillus) was very good; but, the newer stuff I can largely do without.

n2s
 
I kind of agree with not2sharp. I own a few Cold Steel knives (2 Voyagers, SRK, El Hombre, Night Force, Kobun) and they are all good solid knives despite the fact that none are actually manufactured by Cold Steel. The truth is Cold Steel just doesn't grab me as they once did. I remember the days when they would trash Taiwan-made knives, 420 steel, chisel ground tantos, and make attacks on other manufacturers like Gerber and Busse in their Special Projects catalogues. All hype. How the times change! Now they have Taiwan made knives using 420 steel, knockoff SAK's and lack any new original designs.

Again, they do have some good knives, but most have a tired dated look and feel to them. I guess it's all the Zytel and Kraton. Their Ti-Lite looked good, but I was turned off by the fact that it was overpriced considering it has an AUS-8 blade. I was not impressed at all with their Triple-Action folders, nor their Scimitar, nor their Recon 1 folder and now they have a Spyderco Civilian/Matriarch wannabe.:rolleyes: Anyway, I really think Lynn Thompson needs to hire some innovative designers so they can come out with something new and original or maybe work out some custom collaborations with current knifemakers and perhaps bring in some G-10, Micarta, and at least some VG-10 steel for Pete's sake!
 
cold steel has never made knives to my knowledge.
other companies have made them (who shall remain nameless).

the switch to lower grade steels is disappointing.
 
Originally posted by manowar669
You a fan of the metal band? ManOwaR kills!! Just curious.
Click to expand...
Yes,manowar669,i am truly a Manowar fan!! I didn´t know that there where others with similar username, but after all we are "Warriors of ther world united"!!
Take care,brother of Steel!!

Manowar
 
I've got to say that I love what Cold Steel pieces I have, but, aside from the SRK, there's nothing I'd want to buy from them these days.

There were some favorable reviews on one of the 440A knives here, so I wouldn't discount the steel entirely. Also, Kershaw makes those wonderful Blackout 1550 folders with 440A and they're awesome.

Maybe they'll sell their designs for their Carbon V knives to Camillus. It'd be really sweet to see an OVB kukri.
 
I was a client of CS in the old days. My tanto had a brass guard and a pommel cap. For some reason, they lost my business; maybe not for the steel, but I didn't see the diversity into other designs like some manufacturers. That, and I hate those itsy-bitsy serrations that are near impossible to sharpen at home.

I had this discussion with my wife over traveling: I told her that if I had to go by airplane, I would buy a non-serrated, 4-inch clip point Voyager (is that the right name?) and either stow it in checked baggage or mail it ahead to our destination.

My thinking is that this knife would certainly last for two weeks, and if some baggage inspector stole it, it would be a minor loss.

Without realizing it, I had gone from being a loyal client to a guy who buys their knives like he buys can-openers. I still get "Special Projects,' and I cannot find a thing to buy. How did this happen?
 
Cold Steels old Carbon V classics like the SRK and The Trailmaster and so on are still among my highest regarded knives of their kind on the market. The same goes for the AUS 8 Taipan dagger, their AUS 8 tanto series and the other AUS 8 steel classics. But their China made SAK´s and their 420 Sub Zero steel knives and their copycats designs sucks!
Now i have read in many posts who claims or suggests that Camillus makes their Carbon V blades,or at least their heat treatments. Can that realy be true??

Manowar
 
I think Cold Steel has a significant portion of the market for work horse obtainable knives. Mind you, their prices could come down a little for their more premium knives. For the most part, they are a good deal for the price, especially if you buy from dealers when there is a sale. I have a couple of Cold Steel items and they have performed above and beyond my satisfaction. A lot of people have mentioned their knives are good fighters. Considering the abuse they were meant to go through, I would concur. As a more discriminating knife purchaser, I think if they perform like they always did it would be no problem for me. The one big claim was that Cold Steel was mostly a made in U.S.A. company. I don't think they claim that anymore. If their knives are made in Taiwan and they use a "lesser" steel, it means they want to increase their profit margin. If they performed as they always did, despite the change in materials, no problem. Everybody has to make a living. If their product or customer service suffers because of it, then I would have to say it is a problem. For what it's worth...
 
Cold Steel is a business and exists only to make money. Cold Steel is no differnt than any other cutlery company in that if they cant show profits they go out of business. The fact that CS does'nt make their own knives should'nt discredit them as other manufacturers such as Al Mar, Spyderco, Kershaw, CRKT, Gerber, and SOG have some or all of their knives made overseas. Cold Steel's designs were inovative in the 80's (who else was making non custom 9" bowies?) and I will agree they now have really nothing new or exciting to me. However, the vast majority of knife uses are not "knife guys" and dont really care about the newest wonder steel and whats trendy this week in cutlery circles. Most users just want a decent knife at the cheapest price available. My current field knife is a CS SRK purchased at the base PX for $58.00 and I see alot of SRKs, Recon Tantos and Voyager folders along with Gerber Gators and Multi Pliers, and Kabars out in the field. BTW, I have yet to see any Camillus BK&Ts (other than my own) or anything from Busse, Strider, Maddog, SRKW or Al Mar although I'm sure that some are out there. Cold Steel fills their nitche in the industry and fills it well and I cant understand why they get so much greif, especially here on Bladeforums.
 
I hate to break it to you guys but many of the big name companies you buy knives from aren't made by them.

At least 1/2 of Spyderco knives are made in the same plant that makes the Cold Steel Voyagers, the Ti Lite and other models. Along with knives from almost every other company. Look at that atrocity Timberline made that was a stainless handled modified tanto - looked like a Spyderco because it was made by the same people.

SOG contracts out their blades to over seas manufacturers they don't own as well.

Why the switch to cheaper steels? Probably because Cold Steel has done very well serving a relatively uninformed "Gun Show" buyer that likes the hype. They tested the cheaper steels last year with the market and must have done well because now they're adding more. They don't cater to us a group so why make products that we will buy?

Ask the vast majority of the knife buying public what the differences between cryo quenched 440A are and S30V and wait until you see the look on their face.

Personally, I love Cold Steels Voyager knives and will always have a nice little selection of them in my collection. When they come out with something new I like I will try it. I think they make a product that has very good QC regardless of materials.

You may not like the steel or the hype but generally you will get a very well made product. (that statement does not apply to the Recon folders :))
 
Okay. I have been lurking around this site for several months now and finally feel the need to post a reply. So, here goes:

It is plain to see that Cold Steel, its products, and its personell are often the subject of some pretty extensive flaming. IMHO, much of this flaming is not only unwarranted, but often inaccurate. I understand that sometimes an opinion does not need to be based on facts to be valid, but allow me to respond to some of these opinions with some of my own.

First, I am very framiliar with Cold Steel, its products, and its personell. I can tell you that, hype aside, the people involved are commited to the highest quality possible in the mass production market. Though the masses may not always see it this way, I guarantee that this is true. From the general staff all the way up to the company president, there is a real commitment to honesty, integrity, and quality. Lynn Thompson himself tries very hard not to make any statements or take any actions that he cannot back-up. The man and his staff do their research.

Let me address some individual points brought up here on this and other threads:

Q- Why has Cold Steel started making some of its knives in Taiwan after bashing knives made there?
A- Simple, the quality of Taiwan manufacturing facilities has dramatically increased in recent years. Cold Steel, like so many other companies, has to compete in a global economy. If their Taiwan facility can make a knife that meets their quality standards and keeps the price low, why shouldn't they use it? The bashing the comapny made of Taiwan knives was a few years ago. Perhaps through the influence of companies like Cold Steel, manufacturers in Taiwan have realized that to get the bigger market, they have to increase their quality. Other knife manufacturers use facilities in Taiwan and don't get nearly the flack that Cold Steel does. Let's at least be consistent.

Q- Why did Cold Steel start using 420 and 440 stainless?
A- Because they can take an average grade of stainless and make it perform to the best of its ability and still keep the price down. I do not know how many members have seen the new MORE PROOF DVD, since it just came out, but during one of their tests with their "NightForce" model, they did 1,489 cuts on 3' of cardboard before the knife it started to dull. That comes out to 4,467 feet- 14.89 football fields. I'd say that was pretty good performance for just about any stainless steel, but especially 440. Hmm... maybe its exactly what the comapny reps say. That due to their commitment to quality and performance, they can take an average piece of steel and make it the best that it can be. Does it perform like AUS8A or Carbon V? Of course not. Do you get a tremendous amount of bang for the buck? Absolutely.

Q- Why did they take knives made from superior AUS8A and change them to 420 and 440?
A- To take a knife that was much more expensive with AUS8A and be able to reduce the price and still make a quality product. More customers are now able to buy, and the company thrives. Remember 2 things- Cold Steel still makes many of their knives out of Carbon V and AUS8A, so there is still a selection of products to chose from for those who want the higher performing (and higher priced) steels, and as stated above, just because its 420 or 440 does not mean it is not going to perform as the company claims.

Let's be honest. Unless you own and/or operate a mass production knife company, it is very difficult to make brash statements about how they should or should not operate. It is very easy to be an "arm-chair knife company owner." It is easy to make statements or claims about how Cold Steel, or any company for that matter, should produce their product and do business. But until you have actually put in the time (over 20 years in Cold Steel's case), the effort (hundreds of hours in design and testing per knife), and above all the money (hundreds of thousands creating and testing, and surely in the millions for production, marketing, transporting, etc.), your opinion may lack a certain weight comparitively.

There. I've said my piece. No disrespect intended on anyone or any opinion expressed here. Just thought the other side should be stated. :)
 
No i don´t think the average cutlery buyer knows the difference between s30v or 440A steel. Most people who´s not knifenuts like us,simply knows of either stainless steel or carbon steel.Everything between that is probably a mystery for them. It seems like Cold Steel is trying to meet the demand for people that don´t wants to pay a fortune(in their eyes) on blades. I do like Cold Steel,but i do hope that they don´t decide to switch all their knives in poorer steel. It is true that many of the cutlery brands knives are made in the same factories,mostly in SEKI CITY in Japan,but that is something they usually don´t mention in their advertisments.

Manowar
 
I'll buy knives on each individual merit. Cold Steel has assembled a collection of very good knives, some better than others. A few of them I would not touch with a 10 foot pole, but from a good discounter, the price has always been right.

I offer for example, the R1 Military Classic and the ODA... both Randall Model 1-7 clones. The Japanese made R1 is constructed of AUS8 steel and held up very well during my recent tropical jungle trip in the Domincan Republic. It was a bargain at $135 from a discounter.

The ODA made an excellent diving/snorkeling knife as the 420 steel was softer than the AUS8, but much more stain resistant as well. The edge did not stand up well to things like hacking wood but it was excellent for slicing pineapples and other highly acidic fruits. It also did not mind being rinsed off in saltwater. This Taiwanese knife held up very well to light duty but would require frequent sharpening if used often. Such extra attention is not unreasonable given the $55 asking price from a good discounter.

The bottom line is for me is that I chose these knives to take out of the country because I would not shed tears if they were confiscated or stolen. They performed well enough at home so I trusted them to do the job "out there", secondary to that is the affordability and replaceability.

For most of us, $55 or $135 is a drop in the bucket. To many others, it's all they can afford to pay for a knife. Cold Steel offers very good knives in an affordable price range and some variety from the Ontario's and Camillus's. Democracy and capitalism in cutlery... if you will...
 
DngrRuss1,

Thanks for surfacing.

Maybe there is no, or barely no, performance difference in cryo-treated 440A and AUS-8. That's cool. I'm extremely happy with the Cold Steel products I own, but I'd be happier if they made ambidextrous pocket clips on more of their folders and upgraded their steel from time to time. Heck, I'd be happy with an ambidextrous-clipped Vaquero Grande in 440A. It'd probably handle the abuse I put the current one through.

Many knifeknuts go from being Cold Steel customers to people who want more. If there's more of a market for people who don't want more, more power to Cold Steel. They'll still get at least a few more sales from me (SRK, Mini-Bushman, a Scimitar or two), but they're more the person who wants a knife, maybe a cool looking one, not jaded knifeknuts like me.
 
CS it trying to reach a broader market. Theymake great knives and have great designs, but their position as a mid-priced (IMHO) knife manufacturer exludes lots of dollars from thier wallets.

They still make Carbon V knives, but they have moved to Taiwanese makers to appeal to a braoder market. I Really like the Night Force and ProLite (BEEFY!). Both 440A. They still have a good lineup of great knives, and the 440 ones are very cool.

They made a bunch of sheath knives out of 420SZ strictly to hit a lower pricepoint. Hey, I still feel $60 for 420 blades is just dumb. But I really like thier mix, quality, and designs.

Cheers,
Bill
 
Well it´s just seem like Cold Steel has changed their quality standard,plain and simply. I have always been a fan of CS. That was one of the first brands that i baught with my very smal economy that i had as a young teenager. I always was eager to receive their Special Projects catalog,published in the spring and the fall,to see their extraordinary knives and weapons.
I was completly sold on their tests with chopping ropes and showing how strong and sharp their knives where,in compare with the competition,who did not advertised their knives at all in that way.They where the steel company that i looked up to at those days.
That is why i react on the upcoming changes of steels. I would like to see their "Moore proof Video" as soon i can get to it.

Manowar:)
 
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