What is a Master Bladesmith and does it really matter?

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wheelgunrambo

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I first saw the designation "Master Bladesmith" when researching Winkler knives. I did a little google research and saw there are about 120ish named guys from around the world but what does it really mean? The knives i can find seem like works of art and are unobtainable. Winkler knives seem like good use knives but any of the other guys i can find look like museum displays. Just curious what you guys have to say about "Master Bladesmiths"
 
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wheelgunrambo said:
I first saw the designation "Master Bladesmith" when researching Wrinkler knives. I did a little google research and saw there are about 120ish named guys from around the world but what does it really mean? The knives i can find seem like works of art and are unobtainable. Wrinkler knives seem like good use knives but any of the other guys i can find look like museum displays. Just curious what you guys have to say about "Master Bladesmiths"
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First of all, might you mean 'Winkler?'

Secondly, if you by 'unobtainable' mean expensive, then the knives are just that - expensive - because the MS designation means, that a lot of knowledge from a very competent maker goes into crafting the blade.

It takes a lot of time, knowledge and talent to make the knives.

One can get along with standard knives but the joy and pride of ownership of owning a truly handcrafted knife made by a very competent maker is not to be underestimated.
 
wheelgunrambo: The amount of time and skill it takes to acquire an ABS 'Mastersmith' (MS) designation is NOT something to be taken lightly or to dismiss.

These guys, INCLUDING Daniel Winkler, spent years learning the craft and forging skills and then making a series of AT LEAST (10) knives to submit for testing (Five for the Journeyman smith (JS) prerequisite, and then five for the actual Mastersmith testing)

It's like a degree in college. After they have passed it shows they are CAPABLE of the highest standards. This does not mean they need to continue making knives of the test caliber.

I saw your query as analagous to cars: Are Maserati's, Mercedes' and Tesla's really needed? If all you need is basic transportation then, NO. Why pay extra?

For those who want the finest, they are willing to pay the extra, and while these cars may not do a lot of every-day driving; Pride of Ownership is real, and when they DO perform, it's outstanding.
 
I once teasingly asked Daniel Winkler if he even owned a piece of sandpaper as a jest towards the rustic appearance of his knives. The fact is Daniel's work is highly sophisticated and his execution is always at the highest level. He's one of the best in my book.

Being a former holder of the MS rating, I would equate it to earning a legitimate black belt. It shows a mastery of the basics of the craft and shows a level of craftsmanship that demonstrates the Smith can execute a variety of design free of flaws. While no knife is perfect, obvious flaws are not existent at the MS level. Anyone who understands the black belt analogy understands it's NOT a statement of Mastery in the way there is nothing left to learn, but a testament that the fundamentals are second nature and at that point the person becomes a true student of the art. The MS stamp is exactly the same in my opinion.

Earning the JS stamp would be brown belt level equivalent, just to keep the perspective.
 
Hi Bailey,

'Former holder of the MS rating'? A black belt, PhD, chef, etc do not go away even if not currently in practice/use. Does earning a Mastersmith stamp recede with time?

-Michael
 
Just because it looks nice that does not mean it won't work well. Sone master smiths put the time to do just that.
Check their background, talk to them.
Coops comments were really on point. Knife joke.
 
fisk said:
Just because it looks nice that does not mean it won't work well. Sone master smiths put the time to do just that.
Check their background, talk to them.
Coops comments were really on point. Knife joke.
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easy with that edgy humor there, fella
 
Coop's a sharp guy.
 
Being a former holder of the MS rating,

Please explain "former" as others stated. I thought this was a lifetime title.
Thanks for the perspective.

Sorry if this is a dull thread :)
 
wheelgunrambo said:
Being a former holder of the MS rating,

Please explain "former" as others stated. I thought this was a lifetime title.
Thanks for the perspective.

Sorry if this is a dull thread :)
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Not dull per se, but abjectly ignorant to the utmost. You can research the word "Mastersmith" online and find massive amounts of information to become somewhat knowledgeable about the term quickly. To NOT do so indicates lack of motivation to self-inform, at the very least.

The MS designation is overseen by the American Bladesmith's Society. Annual dues payment is required to keep up one's designation. While a lapse in payment does not indicate any loss of skill, it does mean that an MS is no longer entitled to sign their work "MS"....nor can they call themselves an "ABS MS".

Quite a few makers that I know just don't care enough at this point to keep paying their annual dues.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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Chefget said:
Hi Bailey, Does earning a Mastersmith stamp recede with time?
-Michael
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I in no way mean to speak FOR Bailey, he may certainly have his own opinions to share.
I will say that the "Master Smith" rating - to which we are referring - in the knife world is achieved and granted by the American Bladesmith Society. To retain that rank one must remain a dues-paying member.
For reasons that only Bailey can share if he chooses, his creative demands took him off in a different direction than making knives as his main focus and he no longer pays dues to the ABS to retain his membership.
Hence, any rankings in the ABS are now void.
His talents are still quite intact. But, by agreement, he can no longer use the 'MS' insignia as that is owned by the ABS.
Some years ago Ed Fowler quit paying dues as well and he is no longer an MS in the ABS, but considers himself an MS in his own organization. That's his choice.
I hope that clears this up some.

(As I typed this I had not read the previous explanation, but I will leave this for further clarification.)
 
Kohai999 said:
Not dull per se, but abjectly ignorant to the utmost. You can research the word "Mastersmith" online and find massive amounts of information to become somewhat knowledgeable about the term quickly. To NOT do so indicates lack of motivation to self-inform, at the very least.
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while this is all true, the topic is worth discussing every now in then in this forum, as it helps those with less history to get a handle on what's what
 
I just want to clear up one thing the Winkler knives that come at an attainable price that would be his factory line if I remember right the one off custom winkler knives have a price that matches and reflects that.
 
Kohai999 said:
Not dull per se, but abjectly ignorant to the utmost. You can research the word "Mastersmith" online and find massive amounts of information to become somewhat knowledgeable about the term quickly. To NOT do so indicates lack of motivation to self-inform, at the very least.
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Why this reply? The OP clearly IS exercising motivation to "self-inform" online. He happened to choose this forum to do so. Where else would one go but where such a collection of knifemakers exists in one spot but one of the foremost sites FOR knifemakers, collectors, and enthusiasts? Even a Google search would likely lead him here. Besides, isn't a forum just a conversation? To call him ignorant or unmotivated is a bit unfair IMO. Personally, I gained a lot of useful info from this thread and I thank you for your explanation of necessary dues to ABS to maintain a rightfully earned title, (which I have some opinions about but I'll keep them to myself).
 
snubbie said:
Why this reply? The OP clearly IS exercising motivation to "self-inform" online. He happened to choose this forum to do so. Where else would one go but where such a collection of knifemakers exists in one spot but one of the foremost sites FOR knifemakers, collectors, and enthusiasts? Even a Google search would likely lead him here. Besides, isn't a forum just a conversation? To call him ignorant or unmotivated is a bit unfair IMO. Personally, I gained a lot of useful info from this thread and I thank you for your explanation of necessary dues to ABS to maintain a rightfully earned title, (which I have some opinions about but I'll keep them to myself).
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Steven can be a real ass sometimes, but he means well. Don't worry about it
 
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