What is san mai exactly?

H

Hermit_Knight

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Mar 19, 2018
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448
hey all I know that cold steels san mai has an inner core of vg1 (and vg10 now) but I have never really heard of what the other steels that surround that inner steel is? Also has san mai got good toughness I’ve heard someone say it’s as tough as 1095 but I’m not sure about that? Regards Hermit.
 
i have some vg1 and vg10 knives , they are not tough as carbon steel knives .
 
In the case of cold steel, San Mai used to be aus6 (or 8, can't remember now) sandwiched in between 420J. Then it was VG1 as the core, and VG10 in most newer models. I have not experienced chipping in my Trailmaster.

I have heard rumor that the VG10 core is more prone to chipping than VG1.

I did not intend to buy the San mai Trailmaster, I ordered the 01 version and was sent the San Mai. I use it like it was the inexpensive 01 I intended to buy. So far its a great blade that can take the humid climates I tend to camp in.
 
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Wow! That's like ordering a hamburger and getting a steak. Enjoy that San Mai Trail Master as they are the last Japanese made San Mai knives that Cold Steel produces.
 
As far as I know its 420j2. It's pretty stainless & only has enough carbon to get into the mid-50s in hardness. So I'm guessing that they just set the heat treat up for VG-1 & the 420j2 cladding comes along for the ride, topping out several points softer.
 
VG-1 San Mai®
VG-1 San Mai® is comprised of three layers of expertly laminated stainless steel combined into one blade. Hard high carbon steel is sandwiched between two layers of tough lower carbon steel, maximizing edge holding ability while still withstanding impact and lateral stresses. Produced in Japan in extremely limited edition, it is used on our most exclusive and collectible fixed blades.

VG-10 San Mai®
VG-10 San Mai® comprises of three layers of expertly laminated stainless steel combined in one blade. Hard carbon steel is sandwiched between two layers of tough lower carbon spring steel, thus maximizing edge holding ability while still being able to withstand impact and lateral stresses. Produced in extremely small production runs, San Mai® is used on only our most collectible high-end fixed blades, and is a registered trademark of Cold Steel worldwide!
 
Man with no name said:
VG-1 San Mai®
VG-1 San Mai® is comprised of three layers of expertly laminated stainless steel combined into one blade. Hard high carbon steel is sandwiched between two layers of tough lower carbon steel, maximizing edge holding ability while still withstanding impact and lateral stresses. Produced in Japan in extremely limited edition, it is used on our most exclusive and collectible fixed blades.

VG-10 San Mai®
VG-10 San Mai® comprises of three layers of expertly laminated stainless steel combined in one blade. Hard carbon steel is sandwiched between two layers of tough lower carbon spring steel, thus maximizing edge holding ability while still being able to withstand impact and lateral stresses. Produced in extremely small production runs, San Mai® is used on only our most collectible high-end fixed blades, and is a registered trademark of Cold Steel worldwide!
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this is what SAN MAI designed for ,but in reality world , san mai is not perfect for hard use , cause there are some tough steels are more suitable for the application .
 
jux t said:
Have you ever seen a broken San Mai blade made by Cold Steel? Seems plenty tough to me, and very rust resistant to boot.
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i never seen single fully broke san mai knife ,but there are some chipped reports on the net.
 
I have read of Falkniven VG10 laminates chipping the factory edge. It is a bit different in alloy and perhaps hardness compared to CS VG1. The Taiwan San Mai VG10 could have similar issues, I have no clue.
 
Both VG1 AND VG10 laminate knives have a tendency towards potential chipping. This means not every knife will chip. I have experienced this with both with Cold Steel and Fallkniven. Again, in both cases, after the first sharpening it never happens again. And in both cases the manufacturer will put it right if you prefer. Both VG1 and VG10 laminate knives have been around for a very long time. Laminated blades are fine for "hard use". But it is generally believed that softer steels, particularly carbon steels are better for large "choppers" as their edges will roll rather than chip. The catch to this thinking of course, is that in both cases the solution is the same; sharpening. While some say that laminates are not suited for "choppers" Fallkniven has been selling the VG10 core Thor Bowie since 2002, and Cold Steel the VG1 core Trail Master since 2006/2007 both being popular and successful. I tend to think it's a little late in the game to be questioning these San Mai laminates. Even with an Aus8 core, they have been successful since Cold Steel introduced "San Mai" to the US knife market in the 1980s.

 
KenHash said:
Both VG1 AND VG10 laminate knives have a tendency towards potential chipping. This means not every knife will chip. I have experienced this with both with Cold Steel and Fallkniven. Again, in both cases, after the first sharpening it never happens again. And in both cases the manufacturer will put it right if you prefer. Both VG1 and VG10 laminate knives have been around for a very long time. Laminated blades are fine for "hard use". But it is generally believed that softer steels, particularly carbon steels are better for large "choppers" as their edges will roll rather than chip. The catch to this thinking of course, is that in both cases the solution is the same; sharpening. While some say that laminates are not suited for "choppers" Fallkniven has been selling the VG10 core Thor Bowie since 2002, and Cold Steel the VG1 core Trail Master since 2006/2007 both being popular and successful. I tend to think it's a little late in the game to be questioning these San Mai laminates. Even with an Aus8 core, they have been successful since Cold Steel introduced "San Mai" to the US knife market in the 1980s.

Well said. Toughness can mean different things to different people, where as some might think the carbon blade is tough(and it is in certain ways)I see it as wimpy when you mention corrosion resistance. Modern steels have narrowed this down somewhat but even so you have to give up something to get the ultimate from either. I have a Carbon V and San Mai Trailmaster and the CV stays coated in oil for the most part while the SM gets used frequently.
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I’ve had vg1 chip when my not so smart friend decided to take my recon tanto and cut into a mattress that was left outside it must have hit the metal coils but the chips were small, I dropped an SK5 Srk on ceramic tiles and that chipped but it easily sharpened out. Thanks for all the responses guys.
 
Full convex blade grinds will also contribute to chipping. From Cold Steel's website

"The Rolled Edge: has been in existence for over 1,000 years and has been used by bladesmiths all around the world. But today it is quite rare in the knife industry. Some of the finest examples of this edge can be found on early Japanese Katanas. It consists of a continuous curve from the primary grind right to the edge of the knife. There is no "cantle" at the edge visible to the naked eye. The only knife that Cold Steel currently makes with a rolled edge is the Stainless Trail Master. A rolled edge is quite difficult to produce in custom quantities and practically impossible in full scale production. The reason for this is that it must be applied by hand, using a "slack belt". The honer must constantly monitor his progress very carefully to develop a perfect rolled edge. However, the result is a cutting edge that will easily outperform a standard cantled edge, because it offers almost no friction during a cutting stroke. It slips effortlessly through the cutting medium. Apart from the difficulty of manufacture, the drawbacks to this type of edge are that it is typically very fine. This means that it is subject to chipping if it comes in contact with very hard materials such as bone. It is also difficult to re-sharpen by someone inexperienced with rolled edges. The only recourse for this individual would be to send the knife back to Cold Steel for factory resharpening or to develop a cantled edge in place of the original rolled edge"
 
hermit dave said:
Full convex blade grinds will also contribute to chipping. From Cold Steel's website

"The Rolled Edge: has been in existence for over 1,000 years and has been used by bladesmiths all around the world. But today it is quite rare in the knife industry. Some of the finest examples of this edge can be found on early Japanese Katanas. It consists of a continuous curve from the primary grind right to the edge of the knife. There is no "cantle" at the edge visible to the naked eye. The only knife that Cold Steel currently makes with a rolled edge is the Stainless Trail Master. A rolled edge is quite difficult to produce in custom quantities and practically impossible in full scale production. The reason for this is that it must be applied by hand, using a "slack belt". The honer must constantly monitor his progress very carefully to develop a perfect rolled edge. However, the result is a cutting edge that will easily outperform a standard cantled edge, because it offers almost no friction during a cutting stroke. It slips effortlessly through the cutting medium. Apart from the difficulty of manufacture, the drawbacks to this type of edge are that it is typically very fine. This means that it is subject to chipping if it comes in contact with very hard materials such as bone. It is also difficult to re-sharpen by someone inexperienced with rolled edges. The only recourse for this individual would be to send the knife back to Cold Steel for factory resharpening or to develop a cantled edge in place of the original rolled edge"
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hey mate love the name! Is a rolled edge the same as an apple seed edge that they used to put on European longswords?
 
Hermit_Knight said:
hey mate love the name! Is a rolled edge the same as an apple seed edge that they used to put on European longswords?
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That's correct. The pic on the right is how Cold Steel grinds their San Mai III Trail Master, Recon Scout, and Kukri
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