What is the best way to weld or connect metal pieces together?

sygyzy

sygyzy

Joined
Apr 29, 2003
Messages
339
I hope I am using the correct terminology here. I want to make sculptures out of miscellaneous items I find. Scraps of metal, nuts, bolts, screws, etc. I have absolutely no prior metalshop experience. What is the most optimal and affordable way I can go about this? I don't have a shop and will want to work indoors if possible. I guess I can also work on my balcony (open air). What should I look at buying? Full models, makes, descriptions, would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
 
I know enough to suggest you look into a continuing education course at a high school or trade school. These adult ed. courses are usually a night or three a week for a couple weeks and will be enough to get you going. You need to have knowledge of various metals,their properties,various ways of welding, as well as technique. Without proper training, you can easily kill yourself or burn down your house...take a course :D
 
when I read this I got a vision of you with a seven foot tall statue of nuts , bolts and gears , maybe some re-bar thrown in for fun , all put together with JB Weld and/or 2 ton Epoxy, in the vision you were putting the final piece on the top (not unlike an Angel on top of a Christmas tree) , only to have the entire thing crumble to the ground.
Take Matches advice :cool:
 
Yes, take a course. Bolting, welding , brazing, soldering all can be used.Except for bolting they require ventilation.The knife makers part of the forum has recent postings about safety ,it's very important !!!
 
sygyzy said:
I hope I am using the correct terminology here. I want to make sculptures out of miscellaneous items I find. Scraps of metal, nuts, bolts, screws, etc. I have absolutely no prior metalshop experience. What is the most optimal and affordable way I can go about this? I don't have a shop and will want to work indoors if possible. I guess I can also work on my balcony (open air). What should I look at buying? Full models, makes, descriptions, would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Gas brazing with a little propane torch or better yet with an oxy-acetylene rig would work well for this sort of thing.

The propane torch you can get at Home Depot. An oxy-acetylene torch is a bit more expensive and you really ought to have some proper training. But, you can get that training at a local community college or something as has been suggested. Also, such work does take some practice to learn how heat flows and conducts and how materials will react.
 
Stick welding is about the cheapest to get started in if you really want to have any strength to what your doing. A little training and a lot of practice are required. Your also working with a 3000 degree pool of molten steel, burning flux, and strong ultra violet light. Not something to do inside your house :eek:
I'd suggest you head over to the shoptalk section http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=741
And read through all the recent welding threads, there 3 or 4 that have come up recently and include all kinds of general info as well as lots of advice on what kind of welder to purchase.

A good oxy acteylene rig will do a heck of a lot(cutting, welding, brazing and soldering) but is going to set you back as much as a good stick welder would, and would not be safe to store or use in your house. It also requires some very specific training, because its a lot more involved than turning a few knobs and lighting it up. You could very easily kill yourself and anyone nearby if you do something wrong.

In fact, I can't think of any welding operation that would really be safe to do in your house or on a balcony. There's just too much heat coming off, too many fumes coming off, and too much molten metal and slag flying around. It really has to be done in some sort of shop or garage where you can contain everything, and definitely not overhead of other people! :eek: If you can even get out in the open it would probably be ok, but you have to be careful so that your not starting fires or anything like that.

I'd say your best bet would be to take a class of some sort, there are even some offered that cover artisitic metal work. That way you can get trained in safe operation, and get an idea of what kind of facilties are necessary. You also would get a chance to try a few different welding processes out and see which one you might be interested in investing in.
 
Thanks for everyone's feedback. First thing I checked was check my adult ed program and they do not have anything even closely related to welding. This is very disappointing. After everyone pointed out how dangerous and difficult it is, my dream of building sculptures is fizzled away with the morning fog. Sadness is everywhere in the land. :(
 
Think forks! :cool:

I built a sculpture melting forks together. [*Cindy's gonna be all "up in ma grill" :D ] It was a few years ago... Take it easy... ;)

But as some have said, JB weld (metal epoxy), is a small solution. You may have to watch the structural stability of your structure (as rebeltf said).

There is soldering (I'm not sure the correct term...), like uhhhh, "sweating," my daddy calls it. Kina different. Use the small propane bottles you can get at any home improvement place, or get a "plumber's kit" (it will have everything you need, a bottle, the nozzle/valve thing [feeling stupid right about now...], striker, a roll of solder(probably lead) a cake of flux, and a flux brush). That is probably the easiest/safest way, with a torch :cool: . I've done it in and under houses, so your balcony should suffice. You will be limited to copper though.
 
szyzgysy:

Welding supply stores exist to supply welders with materials... they might also know where you could get training locally. It's worth a phone call or two.
 
If youre joining bits of scrap brazing or some sort of physical fixing eg bolts might be better, it can be difficult or impossible to weld two different types of metal together. You need to choose the correct brazing rod for the applicaiton however, as there are different compounds for joining different materials.

I would recommend at least a MAPP torch for brazing, my experience has been propane just doesnt give out enough heat. If you want to braze anything large you may need to look at an oxy-acetalene rig however, you need enough energy to heat the entire area up to the melting point of the brazing rod.

Ive brazed small items indoors before (bits of thin rebar) using a MAPP torch, I used a small barbecue with some sand in the bottom to act as an insulator (or the barbecue absorbs all of the heat!) and some thick cooking foil to make a heat reflector arount the back and sides of the piece. You do have to be careful however as the work does get very hot, massively more so than just soldering something together. You really dont want to knock it over and end up with red hot steel, molten brazing rod etc all over the place! Its advisable to use fire bricks on a stable surface outside instead of trying to use my dangerous effort of sand and tin foil instead too!

Some of the other posts have pointed out a valid point too, welding and brazing give off unpleasnt fumes, you dont really want to be making those in your house!

To be honest the easiest 'satisfying' metalwork I've done thats suitable for indoors is silverwork. Silver is much easier to solder/ braze than steel, a small propane torch with a pencil flame and a tub of borax is all you need. Unfortunately silver is quite expensive (not as expensive as you would imagine from the prices jewelers charge for finished bracelets!) and you have to be more into jewelry making than big industrial sculpting.
 
See if the adult education classes have any heating and air conditioning classes and for sure part of their curriculum will be brazing, soldering, and welding. Also if you live in a fairly big city find out if they have a pipefitter's union local and where they teach their apprentice classes.

Alex Penton
 
I was just listening to a Hamilton Ontario station and they had an ad for a welding school ! Your local vo-tech scholl usually has one .Check with the welding supply stores.
 
Check with welding supply stores, someone has to be teaching people how to weld, it's not a skill you are born with. Also check with art galleries especially ones that deal with jewelry and/or art metals they may be able to point you to a guild or similar organization in your area. Even if there isn't a guild there may be a local artist that is willing to help you get started. Just because you can't weld, solder, or braze there is a lot that can be done with "cold connection" i.e. adhesives, threaded fasteners, tab and slot, etc. Thomas Mann among others has made a career out of cold connections and "found objects" (found objects sounds better than junk or scrap, especially when you are selling your work). Get yourself a copy of The Complete Metalsmith by Tim McCreight it's full of good how and why info and shows ways to work without a lot of special tools and equipment. Jinks McGrath has some good jewlerly/metalsmithing books too, you probably want to have a look at Lapadary Journal and maybe Art Jewelry magazines, they have quite a few beginner and intermediate how-to projects that show techniques. For annealing copper, brass, and silver a cheap propane torch will work, you can silver solder with one, not the easiest or best but in a pinch I have made it work. As others have said, I would avoid hot work (except for annealing, you can do that on your balcony safely if you are careful) inside a house and especially an apartment not only the fire danger, but also lots of potentially dangerous fumes and insurance company’s get all worked up about acetylene tanks, if something bad does happen they will be all over you. The little hardware store propane or acetylene and oxygen torch kits are a waste, tough to adjust and the gas is way overpriced. I tried one several years ago and it made me go right out and buy a real oxyacetylene setup. The art metals studio at the university, and a lot of workshops I have visited use air acetylene torches, no need to mess with oxygen tanks and no adjustments on the torch, not quite as hot as oxyacetylene, but fine for soldering and annealing.

Todd
 
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