What is the difference between W1 and 1095?

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Lukers

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Thanks to one of you kind gentlemen, I now have a source for 01 round stock for forging(www.toolanddie.com) While on this page, I saw W1 available and got to wondering, what exactly is it? I know it has been used for files for years.

Here is a link to it's composition: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Campus/8262/htdocs/steels/W1.html
(I should mention that this site appears to a lot of other good info on steel)
While searching through a book called "Practical Metallurgy" by Neely I saw that W1 was also designated as AISI-C1095. So basically my question is...are 1095 and W1 the same thing? Or real darn close?

Would W1 be best used in a smaller knife designed for slicing and cutting, or could it also be used for big knives, hawks and swords.

Thanks in advance,
Luke
 
Close but the specs for W1 have a very wide range of carbon.Like 1095 ,the hardenability is low but it can be used for knives and swords.
 
1095 and W1 are both shallow hardening steels that require a very quick quench to harden at all, hence the low hardenability. They both have less than a second to pass the pearlite nose in the quench in order to form martensite, which is why water or brine is often used as a quenching medium for these steels.

They are similar steels, I may be wrong but I think the main difference is the addition of a small amount of silicon in the W1, but you have to remember small amounts of any alloying element can make huge differences in the characteristics of a steel. I wish there was a reliable source of W2, which had a touch of vanadium added to it.
 
i hear that W1 is deep hardening , does this have to do with the fact that its thermal conductivity is high? ( right terms??)
 
Silent has it right.The W stands for water hardening, these are the shallowest hardening steels. The O steels are oil hardening and are deeper hardening and the A steels are air hardening the deepest hardening. Hardenability could be explained as the distance ( or time ) it takes to the pearlite nose on the TTT diagram. The longer the time the deeper the hardenablity. There is a specific test to measure this called the Jominy end quench hardenablity test. It all depends on the alloying elements in the steel. It has nothing to do with the thermal conductivity. The important point is that 1095 and W1 must be quenched immediately, furnace to quench instantly, and a fast water quench used. Hardenability does not mean how hard it can get.
 
With silicon added to W1, doesn't that make it more machinable? The metallurgy book by John Neely says that W1 is used for saws, files and other cutting tools. The specs. in there said it is capable of 67 RC. The only reason I am interested in using W1 is because the source is pretty cheap for it. Does anyone know where to get round bars of 1050, 1084 and 1095? I know where to get 5160(although load control shafts are kinda hard to forge down) 52100, and 01. I just want to play with several steels to see what they can do.

Thanks for the info guys!!
 
Silicon does not make it more machinable. Both W1 and 1095 should be sold in the spherodize annealed condition.If you forge it you should heat treat it to get back to the spherodized condition if you want the best machinability.
 
well then i was told wrong.... i was told that 01 didn't harden as deep.... like a section over 5/8 wouldn't harden all the way through due to it being an oil quenched steel which loses heat slowly, and W1 would harden all the way through for thicker sections because it loses its heat quickly all the way through
 
Actually, Hammerfall, I think your info is reversed. O1 is the deep hardening, while the W series is shallow hardening. That's what makes it easier to get visible temper lines in "W" and "10" series steels. Oil hardening steels are designed to get hard easier and more completely.
 
The industry designates steel by quenchants by the quenchant needed to get a 1" cube of the particular steel fully hard. Most W designated steels, including the 10xx steels, will fully harden with an oil quench in blade shaped cross sections. The biggest factor is how fast you get the steel from the fire to the quench.

W1 is cheap at a welding supply store close to here in round stock in various sizes. I've used it some, but the wide range of carbon you get from bar to bar makes finding the right tempering temps a pain. W1 and W2 can have from 0.60% to 1.40% carbon.

Todd
 
I was going to post the make of of the two steels but couldnt get the chart to line up and I'm short of time to mess with it.

Happy hollidays
 
:eek: I wouldn't quench a 1095 blade in water. Not unless you like the fancy "PING PING PING" noises it makes :D
Quenching medium depends from thickness as well as steel.
Standing on what you say 1075 or C70 would need water or brine as well as a quenchant, but I quench all my knives in warm oil as per steel specs from manufacturer for that thickness.
I guess thicker stock, such as for a file or like it would need water to properly harden.
 
You can harden both in water with excellent results. I will use oil for O1, but only that. If you get a ping something wasnt done right most of the time. Out of the 25 knives or so that I have made only one or two have cracked and that was my fault. I love water and have great results with it. Use it at room temp and dip point first. No problems. Plus no smell.
 
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