What is the purpose/benefit/use of the Swayback handle shape?

David Mary

David Mary

pass the mustard - after you cut it
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Greetings friends, title says it all, but I will just elaborate a bit to add that to me, it seems easier to present the edge of a knife to the medium being cut when the handle has a bit of a dip at the top of the butt, rather than the swell of a swayback, which draws the edge up away from the material, and forces more wrist actuation to get it back on point. That being said, I am sure there are a lot of knife tasks that are done with the traditional swayback pattern that I haven't thought of, or done personally. I've been close to making a swayback handled fixed blade a few times. I cut a piece of steel by hand, and it almost ended up a swayback, until I changed it before I put the handle scales on. Even have one drawn up in the CAD program, but can never seem to bring myself commits to it, at least not without some background knowledge. Doesn't make sense to me to make a knife I don't have some idea how to use... But I do find the shape attractive, and have been wanting more and more to make one. Please enlighten me, so I can do so with my eyes open. Thanks!
 
You may find ideas here


Basically with a pocket-knife the swayback fits into the curve in your palm under the thumb and you use the thumb on top of the spring for draw cuts or slicing. Best suited is a straight edged blade of some sort- the Ettrick is a good and extreme example of this.

With a fixed blade, I'd image it should be smaller sized and have a Wharncliffe or similar to be effective?

83c4Od1.jpg


This Ettrick has a Pruner blade but more usual is a small straight edge.

Now get busy and make one :cool:
 
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There's ergonomics and then there's tradition. 😁

It's usable, but maybe not ideal as a kitchen slicer.
I think the swayback is well suited to something like a pruner, which I'm usually using with the edge facing up, cutting towards myself. Or using a Lambsfoot knife to score material with the tip angled downwards.

aYPWfZP.jpg
 
I agree with Rachel, I think a Swayback handle marries perfectly with a Lambsfoot, Pruner, or Ettrick blade (we see some early Pruners with handles with really extreme curved handles). With the Lambsfoot, it allows the canted tip to be presented perfectly. There's a Thread Index in the Guardians thread, with a lot of discussion about handle ergonomics, and there's also a fixed blade Lambsfoot, with a Swayback handle :thumbsup:
 
If it helps at all, have a small fixed blade Swayback bought some years ago in South Africa from Trevor Burger.

The handle has a good thickness to it, very comfy in the hand, and not that far off the mark for a folder of the same size.



It is nice to use, to say the least, and comes up particularly well reverse-grip when slicing biltong (your kinda jerky) and fruit...







 
Most of the folders I actually use are swaybacks. You are right it draws the tip back instead of forward. The benefit is comfort in hand and I think the blade shape is more important than the handle.

(I've put way too much though into this previously)

So here are two Wrights knives. One lambsfoot, one sheepsfoot. The Lambsfoot is swayback and the sheepsfoot is a sway... front i guess. I legitimately bought the sheepsfoot because of the pattern shape.
20230822_093101~2.jpg20230822_091859~2.jpg

You can see the wider blade and reverse shape make that sheepsfoot ready to dig in while the lamb kinda lays back a bit.

20230822_093017~2.jpg20230822_092937~2.jpg

I noticed this while slicing leather with the lamb recently. Had to really tweak the wrist to get the tip in there.

Now the Lambsfoot is in my pocket everyday since I've bought it and it's not an issue really. Favorite knife basically.

But, the swayback pattern is really perfect in hand. It just fits. Take this sheepsfoot for example, the blade is straight with the spring but angles down to the tip. This is just about perfect in my opinion. Best of both worlds.

20230813_102330~2.jpg

This next one sways so far front that it really draws the blade forward, but the blade shape makes it so it's still hard to use the tip of the blade. This one is a slicer no doubt.
20230728_182348~2.jpg


On the other hand here are two fixed blades with very nicely shaped "sway forward" handles. One a cheapo that I recovered and the beautiful maple straight edge is from G.L. Drew.
20230419_234720~2.jpg
20230519_151741~2.jpg

You would think by looking at them that the G.L. drew would aggressively dig in at the tip, but the blade edge actually sits back when holding the knife, like the Lambsfoot. On the Schrade with black scales the tip sits forward a bit more when you hold it.

So my conclusion was that it's not just the handle shape, but the blade shape as well. It's about the edge shape and where the tip of the knife ends up when you hold it comfortably in hand. That and it's intended use. The swayback is very comfortable in hand but I do t think you can use it on any fixed blade, it would have to be a well thought out blade to go with it.
 
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I've been thinking of coming out with a small edc knife that might be sort of a pairing knife. I don't really have anything small in my lineup.
Swayback or simuliar was something I was considering.
 
RickHuf said:
Most of the folders I actually use are swaybacks. You are right it draws the tip back instead of forward. The benefit is comfort in hand and I think the blade shape is more important than the handle.

(I've put way too much though into this previously)

So here are two Wrights knives. One lambsfoot, one sheepsfoot. The Lambsfoot is swayback and the sheepsfoot is a sway... front i guess. I legitimately bought the sheepsfoot because of the pattern shape.
View attachment 2295332View attachment 2295327

You can see the wider blade and reverse shape make that sheepsfoot ready to dig in while the lamb kinda lays back a bit.

View attachment 2295328View attachment 2295329

I noticed this while slicing leather with the lamb recently. Had to really tweak the wrist to get the tip in there.

Now the Lambsfoot is in my pocket everyday since I've bought it and it's not an issue really. Favorite knife basically.

But, the swayback pattern is really perfect in hand. It just fits. Take this sheepsfoot for example, the blade is straight with the spring but angles down to the tip. This is just about perfect in my opinion. Best of both worlds.

View attachment 2295337

This next one sways so far front that it really draws the blade forward, but the blade shape makes it so it's still hard to use the tip of the blade. This one is a slicer no doubt.
View attachment 2295346


On the other hand here are two fixed blades with very nicely shaped "sway forward" handles. One a cheapo that I recovered and the beautiful maple straight edge is from G.L. Drew.
View attachment 2295338
View attachment 2295339

You would think by looking at them that the G.L. drew would aggressively dig in at the tip, but the blade edge actually sits back when holding the knife, like the Lambsfoot. On the Schrade with black scales the tip sits forward a bit more when you hold it.

So my conclusion was that it's not just the handle shape, but the blade shape as well. It's about the edge shape and where the tip of the knife ends up when you hold it comfortably in hand. That and it's intended use. The swayback is very comfortable in hand but I do t think you can use it on any fixed blade, it would have to be a well thought out blade to go with it.
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Nice analysis and images... you put into words some impressions I've had when using blades with swoopy edges or handles that lean counter intuitively.
 
Jack Black said:
I hope you can get one made Rob, be great to see it :cool: I'm sure you remember Cambertree Cambertree 's 'Lambshank' :) :thumbsup:

CsT7xku.jpg
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Jack, yes, I remember Cambertree's lambshank, it planted the seed in my head :cool:
I'll get around to it, I have a couple of custom folders in progress, hopefully they will be done by the end of the year, maybe after those are done I'll get my fixed blade lambsfoot in the works:thumbsup:
 
IMHO, Case has nailed it... just the right size, shape, all of the above.... swayback perfection....
The swayed back helps it fit the curve of your palm and the swelled front allows your fingers to curl around naturally, giving a great grip... while still allowing shifting and twisting the knife to fit any cutting task...with your thumb naturally resting on the back of the bolster, for added pressure at the tip of the blade, if necessary....

Swaback stag mark.jpg
Swaback stag pile.jpg
Swaback stag mark open.jpg
 
rockman0 said:
Jack, yes, I remember Cambertree's lambshank, it planted the seed in my head :cool:
I'll get around to it, I have a couple of custom folders in progress, hopefully they will be done by the end of the year, maybe after those are done I'll get my fixed blade lambsfoot in the works:thumbsup:
Click to expand...
Sounds like you've got some great goodies coming Rob! :cool: :) :thumbsup:
 
I have the kizer swags swayback for a work knife.(for a couple of different reasons)

The backwards handle works well for pulling. Which I use for opening clam shell packaging.
 
I have wondered this myself because while I love the way the traditional wharncliffe swayback looks, I handled one and did not like it at all.
It just felt completely wrong and unnatural to me.
Every post I see / read here makes them seem like an excellent extremely utilitarian knife so I just had to handle one, and when I did I was instantly let down by how awkward it felt in my hand.


I'll continue to admire how well they look, but I don't think I'll ever warm up to carrying and using one.
 
hornetguy said:
IMHO, Case has nailed it... just the right size, shape, all of the above.... swayback perfection....
The swayed back helps it fit the curve of your palm and the swelled front allows your fingers to curl around naturally, giving a great grip... while still allowing shifting and twisting the knife to fit any cutting task...with your thumb naturally resting on the back of the bolster, for added pressure at the tip of the blade, if necessary....

View attachment 2295476
View attachment 2295477
View attachment 2295480
Click to expand...

Yes, Case needs to bring it back but my promise to buy one hasn’t been enough to get them moving on it.
 
rishma said:
Yes, Case needs to bring it back but my promise to buy one hasn’t been enough to get them moving on it.
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None of the promises made, vows taken, oaths sworn, or curses levied have motivated them to action in any way whatsoever -- and all I want is for them to offer equal amounts of CV and Stainless (well, that's not REALLY what I want... I have no use for their stainless whatsoever aaaand I live only a few miles from the beach in one of the hottest and highest humidity localities in the nation - I should be their target market).

I'll say it again though, if Case puts out a CV Swayback, I'll be first in line!

Recycled pic of my current favorite Swayback. Wish it was in a steel that took on character, but at least 154CM is better than that "surgical" stuff Case offers.

https://imgur.com/a/6FvNKfM
 
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