What is tougher than a Kabar? D2 vs regular? US vs forign Kabar?

J

Jay Hiewd

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What would be tougher for a hard use survival, camping, self defense knife than a Kabar? I'm looking for stronger not just better looking in a similar size package.

How much better is the D2 version?

Is the made in USA version better than the foreign Kbar?

What's the best way to attached to Molle other than the Molle adapter?
 
Toughness and strength have specific meanings with knives.

In general, D2 will hold a better edge, and 1095 will be a little tougher (resistant to chipping and breaking).

But there are other factors. For example, the standard 7" Ka-Bar in 1095 is hardened to about 57 Rc, while the D2 Extreme is hardened to 59-60 Rc, meaning the D2 will be stronger (resistant to dents, rolls and bends), but even less tough than if the hardness factors were equal.

But the D2 is also thicker (.175 inches to .165 inches), so it will be able to take more abuse, but it won't slice as well.
 
A Kabar is a combat utility knife, it was not designed to be a “survival knife”. Yes, you can absolutely use it when you go camping to cut up food, notch some wood, and clean fish, but it was not designed to be batonned or to do fine bushcraft/survival tasks like trap making.

It was designed to open cans of C-rations, cut cord, maybe some light digging, and in a last resort, kill an enemy soldier.

Wham someone asks for a knife like you are describing, I always point them towards the ESEE-6. It’s a very well designed knife that can excel at various tasks, even self defense if necessary.

If you want something shaped more like a Kabar, look at the Medford “The Fighter” fixed blade.
 
Ontario 498.
I believe it is the only Mil spec "Ka-Bar" currently produced. It ain't "pretty" in the looks department, thanks to the fungicide on/in the leather washer grip/handle.
Blade is properly heat treated 1095. I forget if it has a Parkerized or Phosphate finish on the blade.

Those lucky guys n' gals who are currently a active duty Government Issue ("G.I.") get a Ontario 498 if they are issued a "Ka-Bar".
 
Malice clips are a pretty good way to attach to MOLLE but the thing you're attaching has to be workable.

Best bet to get the knife and sheath first. Some places will have sheaths that marry up with MOLLE.
 
There is no budget. How good are the molle adapters that the military issued? Do the more expensive knives stand up longer to abuse?
 
There are MANY knives tougher than a Ka-bar.

Both in design, construction, and steel choices.



Neither 1095 nor D2 are tough steels.

If you are looking for toughness, 5610 (or other spring steels), Aebl, CPM3v or INFI.

Even 52100 (ball bearing steel) is going to be tougher than 1095 or D2.



That said....I have many knives in 1095, some in d2, and many many other steels.


If you are looking for a knife to abuse, and bevery hard on, I can recommend Busse, Swamp Rat, and Scrao Yard. They use 52100 and INFI.

Also. Take a look at the cusrom knife section. Many great choices there.....and I more likely to buy custom knives over Busse/Swamp Rat/ Scrap Yard these days......because custom!!



I am a fan of D2 in polished form. 1095 also. D2 is nearly stainless in my uses.

What is your budget?
 
Ive used a Kabar D2 extreme for a number of years and ive found theres not much it cant do.It does slice well, too ive really done alot with it and i found that style of blade to work very well.
 
The classic KA-BAR is a great knife but if you want to get something more durable, go with a KA-BAR made BK7 or its larger brother the BK9. Both knives you mentioned have what many here would refer to as a rat-tail tang; the BK7 and BK9 have full tangs.
 
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I'd look at the Cold Steel Drop-Forged Survivalist. One solid piece of aesthetically pleasing properly heat-treated 52100. Nicely slicey flat grind. Nothing to break. Grippy handle inserts. Usable, if unattractive, sheath. Generally less $ than a Kabar, and based on the Recon Scout blade profile. A genuinely good all-around mid sized Bowie. Nothing more, and nothing less.

I would be remiss if I did not point out the cons. It's not perfect. The teflon finish is a little slick(duh?), tho this is balanced by grip inserts that really work. It's relatively heavy, not something I would grab if I had to make miles fast on foot, but for a camp situation that weight can be a positive. And I don't care for plastic sheaths, tho I understand the economic situation. There are better knives, certainly. I have better knives. Several, in fact. You might have a beef with Cold Steel, or something. Doesn't change the fact that this is a really good knife. Period. None of that 'for the money' crap. It's simply a tough, well-designed, good quality cutting tool.

My favorite production 8" utility knife is the Kabar/Becker BK-5, not that it matters. The Survivalist is just as good at being a knife, it's just different. And, for what it's worth, Kabar's 1095 Cro-Van steel was formerly known as 0170-6C carbon steel, and, more interestingly, as Carbon V when heat-treated by Cold Steel. 52100 is a better steel, but that's not to say the Kabar alloy is somehow lacking. It's not. The Becker is a better knife for my needs. The Kabar is all the knife some will ever need. But the Survivalist is a better all-around knife than a Kabar. Even a D2 Kabar. And I like Kabar. Just being honest.
 
Jay Hiewd said:
There is no budget. How good are the molle adapters that the military issued? Do the more expensive knives stand up longer to abuse?
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The Buck 124 is a nice full tang knife.

Beckers are all tough as nails, and would be solid choices.

I think you would be well served with a Becker BK 62 Kephart. As far as Molle attachments I have no idea.

If there really is no budget, Randall’s are tougher than KA-BARS, the model 1 is the closest one to a KA-BAR with a stick tang, and leather handle.

The model 16 SP1 is a stainless version same blade as a model 1 micarta handle and a full tang. Models 14 Attack, and 15 Airman are similar full tang models too.
 
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Bias alert, this one is my design collaboration with another knifemaker on the forum using the Kabar USMC's function as a baseline, so a utility fighter. Ours biases towards utility and cutting over outright durability but it can still take a beating, the tip being the main part we decided not to overly reinforce so that you get cutting right up to the tip.

The Sitrep
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The drop point version will be pretty darn tough at the tip though.
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For production stuff, I would take an Esee 6 ( 2nd picture, orange/black hanlde) over the kabar USMC if toughness was what I was after but still wanted something to cut acceptable. It's shorter but about the same weight I think. I also think the handle is more comfortable, especially the 6HM. Actually, for your uses, I think I would take it anyway as the overall package is better but you'll also pay for it.

As stated above, there are a lot of tougher knives than the kabar, but the kabar is plenty tough for most uses including what you're looking for. IMO, where the kabar really shines is the amount of utility you can get out of it for the money. It's a high-value knife.

I'm a little curious, what about the kabar isn't tough enough for your uses? Besides standing on the handle, throwing, or trying to baton logs (not kindling), the standard model should handle pretty much anything else you would use a knife for.
 
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Jay Hiewd said:
There is no budget. How good are the molle adapters that the military issued? Do the more expensive knives stand up longer to abuse?
Click to expand...

To answer the last question, maybe, if they're designed for it. As an example, the swamp rat mega ratweiler or mega ratmandu are two knives offered by Busse Combat that will be far tougher than the kabar and cost more. They're also pretty heavy and "cost more" is much, much more. You would have a pretty tough time destroying the knives though, even if you went out with the intention of trying to break them. You could damage the edge but it would be pretty challenging to do irreparable damage.

I prefer the standard ratweiler or ratmandu thicknesses, personally, but they're only available on the 2nd-hand market now. The ratweiler being one of my favorite hard use knives in a "small" package.

Actually, since you mention self defense, the Team Gemini Ultra Light Brigade from Busse might be the best option they have currently available as it uses thinner blade stock, has big guards, cuts better, and is still nearly bullet proof. Probably my 2nd favorite Busse I've ever handled.
https://www.bussecombat.com/busse-team-gemini-ultra-light-brigade-coated/

From left to right: swamp rat ratmandu, Busse Team Gemini Ultra Light Brigade, swamp rat ratweiler (0.25" Sr101 steel), swamp rat infi ratweiler (0.2" infi steel), Busse forsaken steel heart, Scrapyard Knife Co (SYKCO) 1311.
Z2TMG14l.jpg


These are just a few more examples of knives tougher than the kabar that will cost more. Again, there are a lot of choices out there and I think doing some reading and watching will help you decide... or confuse you further since we'll throw a lot of suggestions at you.

Still, bang for the buck, the kabar is hard to beat.
 
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