What is your dream forging press?

adammichael

adammichael

Joined
Sep 13, 2004
Messages
1,553
I am in the process of designing a forging press and i got to thinking:

#1 I dont know what the Hell im doing.

and

#2 The guys on Bladeforums know what there doing, I'll ask them!

I need to know what you wish you would have done different or what you wish you wouldnt have done when you made your press. Keep cost out of it. I want to know what you want on your press. Dont worry about saving $20 here or $50 there. I am designing the press in CoCreate Onespace Designer and Solidworks and i will post the design when im done to get your feedback. I already have alot done and i want to know what you profesionals would like to see in a press.

What do you like about the H-frame design or the I-beam design. What dont you like about them. Foot pedal control or hand control. How high should the working height be? Shut off valve for the tank? How about a drain for the tank? What about heaters in the tank for those cold winter days? You get the idea.

That includes the hydraulic tank and the die sets as well. I dont care how minor the improvement is. I have had more than my share of phonecalls with Fitso and he has been more help to me than I deserve to get so lets see what other ideas are out there. Maybe together we can design the Ultimate Hydraulic Press.

Thanks
www.AdamMichaelKnives.com
 
The flow rate of the pump should be as big as possible (to make for the fastest ram speed and cycle time).For the ram,30 to 50 tons is excellent.Foot control,to allow both hands free. H-frame for maximum strength.Tank valves are good as long as you remember to open them back up.Forget heaters,cooling is more of a problem.Quick change dies to facilitate billet manipulation.Height should be about waist high for the lower die (approx. 30"). Good filtration and magnetic screening are good ideas. Pressure gagues are a plus. BTW $20 here and $50 there can quickly add up to $200 here and $500 there.
 
bladsmth said:
The flow rate of the pump should be as big as possible (to make for the fastest ram speed and cycle time).For the ram,30 to 50 tons is excellent.Foot control,to allow both hands free. H-frame for maximum strength.Tank valves are good as long as you remember to open them back up.Forget heaters,cooling is more of a problem.Quick change dies to facilitate billet manipulation.Height should be about waist high for the lower die (approx. 30"). Good filtration and magnetic screening are good ideas. Pressure gagues are a plus. BTW $20 here and $50 there can quickly add up to $200 here and $500 there.
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How about 16GPM with a 5 HP motor. 5" bore, 8" stroke and 2 inch piston. Does that soulnd about right?

I am not building this in the real world yet. It only exists in Cad so im not worried about $20 or $500 right now. When i get the wish list completed I will do a cost analysis on it and see what it looks like. I am not trying to market these for sale. There are plenty of good press's out there at a great price. (Bowie for example)
I do hope to make one for myself someday and if it costs me another $300 over the $1200 that i think i can build it for, I can live with that. I would rather spend it now than be pissed off for the next 10 years because i didnt add something that I really want and need.

Thanks
 
That will work.If you want the "DREAM" press ,bigger is better.But a 25-30 ton works just fine.Get a copy of Dr. Batson's book,"Build your own hydraulic forging press".You can get it from the ABS and several other places.It is full of the charts and graphs you will need to know to design and build yours.It also gives part numbers and specs.
 
Dream forging press:

Whatever one can be done next week :) (I was gonna say whatever one could be done for free, but that qualifier on the price kinda killed that)

Seriously, I've seen some pretty neat presses, one of the local guys uses a press that's horizontal, he's got dies set up so that he even uses the thing to put the bevels on the blades as he forges them out!

Tony
 
I've been dreaming about my press for a year now so when I wake up in two weeks it will finally be here.
 
Raymond Richard said:
I've been dreaming about my press for a year now so when I wake up in two weeks it will finally be here.
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You got one coming? Where did you get it?
 
At one time I was thinking about building me a press but after getting the Batson booklet on making a press I decided to just go ahead and have one built and use my time making knives and hawks that I know I can make. I ordered one of Bowie's, Ron Claiborne. Here's a link to get to it: http://refractory.elliscustomknifeworks.com/ Just click on the press button.
 
yes 200 ton :eek: :D
sorry just wishing... :)

I'm collecting the stuff to make mine now. hopefully a portable combo press/rolling mill ,
I'm going with an upper A frame, I believe it to be stronger and lighter for what I need in my situation.
I-bean is just too heavy for what it offers in the way of strength.
heavy walled square tube is the way I'm going, with plate steel...

I'm going with an 8 HP Honda engine and I should be able to modify the carburetor to tweak the engine to 10 HP. I have a 5" piston with a 3" throw but wished for at least 7" x 5 max throw

there is still a lot I have to look into..
 
I have a 6" bore with a 12 inch stroke in the back of my truck right now that I salvaged from work. Now I'm dreaming of the rest of the setup to go with it. :D
 
Dang, Dan, what the heck kinda walnut you plan on cracking? :eek: Just joking. My personal preference is for a 5" cylinder, 2500 PSI, 25 ton. I like it a little slower (11gpm) because I'm a little slow and I worry that all that extra tonnage on a two-knife billet will shear it when it starts pressing real hard, like 40-50 tons. Harley built a 45 ton press and said it scared him. Chuck (Sea Robin) Robinson was building a 90ton press to make those knifemakers anvils. That's a lot of squish.
 
fitzo said:
Dang, Dan, what the heck kinda walnut you plan on cracking? :eek: Just joking. My personal preference is for a 5" cylinder, 2500 PSI, 25 ton. I like it a little slower (11gpm) because I'm a little slow and I worry that all that extra tonnage on a two-knife billet will shear it when it starts pressing real hard, like 40-50 tons. Harley built a 45 ton press and said it scared him. Chuck (Sea Robin) Robinson was building a 90ton press to make those knifemakers anvils. That's a lot of squish.
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an IG Nut, I'd want to do it in one squish :D

I'd like the extra pressure so I can make and use longer dies

50 ton would be primo...I'd settle on that with no problem
 
Raymond Richard said:
I've been dreaming about my press for a year now so when I wake up in two weeks it will finally be here.
Click to expand...


Ray....it is a dream come true....I know firsthand....

Ron Claiborne is a true Damascus expert and it shows in his press design.

I have a 3 day wknd and I am making a Damascus piece.

Greg
 
Dan Gray said:
an IG Nut, I'd want to do it in one squish :D
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Ah, now I understand! There's a lot of nut there to squish. Or is that nutbag?? :D

I'll get that S30V chopped off the bar today. Been stuck inside cuz of the ozone for three days......

Sorry, Michael. I'll keep it topical henceforth. Dan makes a good point about needing extra tonnage for bigger dies. Reminds that tonnage is really a measure of PSI
 
Too much squish on a fresh weld can cause shear or "slippage", though, can't it, Mike? I know I've watched the top and bottom half of a "laminar" weld slide across itself squeezing too hard getting it set the first time.

A lot of this has to do with billet size, too, I suppose. The largest billet I've done is about 12-14 pounds. I will readily admit my experience is limited to "smaller" presses and my impression may change completely were i to get opportunity to work with a "beast".
 
The sad thing is, I had all the parts for a 35 ton press given to me, sans motor and tank, he even gave me an extra hydraulic motor, and a new valve as a spare, and I haven't found time to do anything with the parts. That whole thing about making a living keeps getting in the way of things that would help make a better living.

As for shearing the laminations, it shouldn't be a problem as long as the dies are square, and the billet is square, and you don't try to draw the thing down too much on the welding heat. (Every press has some flex to it, and when you only squeeze lightly on the welding heat, you're not going to cause it to flex too much, but if you bear down on it.... well you get the idea) Wait till after it's all solid, then mush the mess out of it! I watched some guys trying to weld billets on a power hammer a while ago with out of square dies. didn't matter what they did, they would always delaminate, so I talked one guy into making the initial weld on the anvil, then just using the hammer to draw it out.... man what a difference!

One problem I see with the I-beam presses is the fact that the inside rails of I-beam aren't square to the face, and that means either the fit is sloppy. or you've got to do some machining to get everything true, course there are other ways around this.... but then I beam will still torque and twist, and cause things to be out of square when forging at it's limits.... now if you where to Box the I-beam, that'd be a different story altogether. :)

A few years ago, things like presses seemed like cheating to me, now I think their all but nescesary to be at all competitive time wise, and financially when it comes to making damascus.

Just my 2¢ (much less than that after taxes though) :rolleyes:

Tony
 
ysforge said:
One problem I see with the I-beam presses is the fact that the inside rails of I-beam aren't square to the face, and that means either the fit is sloppy. or you've got to do some machining to get everything true, course there are other ways around this.... but then I beam will still torque and twist, and cause things to be out of square when forging at it's limits.... now if you where to Box the I-beam, that'd be a different story altogether. :)
.......
Tony
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The design that I have uses something simular to what you are talking about. I boxed in 2 rectangular tubes in the H frame. I dont have any screen shots at home of it, i will post some tomorrow. It calculates out at 125 tons before any flexing is going to happen. I think it might be what your talking about.

Thanks everyone for the input
Michael
 
Horizontal would be nice , I think. One advantage would be that the dies could be top loaded for less pulling out of place .One disadvantage is that the dies would be top loaded :). Those dies get HOT!!

Wouldnt be too much of a problem to figure out a way of extracting them after using for a while.

While we're dreaming....

Why not a set of rotary motor driven die banks
 
Dream press
That’s a tuff one .
One that mash out 1000 dollar bills oops 5lbs steel in the minds of great masters mashers can produce that .
One that makes every thing perfect and fast hummmm that would be boring ,
One that has great control so that I can determine its effects on the steel .yes

One that I can gang mash Buicks together hence car crushers 100 tons and up
one that fits my shop and needs ---- am I mashing Buicks for projectile in the desert or building a billet for a one of a kind folder .
One that has ram speed that I if I blink I can see the $1000.00 billet change into 20 dollor disk that looks like road kill
one that when I start it I can lock it in and go grind a few blade or call Kelly for more steel
do so wire inlay start a new press with a bit faster ram speed ( O ) that’s what we are talking about .
I do know that its hard to time a speed when you are only a 1/4 ‘ from your work each time unless you have a controller that will lift the ram all the way back up —but surly in this day and time one would know not to use that for sure.
One that is at a good viewing hight so that it can be watched, a little over 40" high .
Hand or foot controls I like hand controls I have more control in my hands than my feet and I don’t like doing a balancing act while mashing steel
One that is quite so the people down the street want call the swat team in because they think im killing people during the night .
One that I can convince my wife that it’s the best can crusher money can get –honey you can stack a cas of cans 2" tall just think of the room your saving at the recycling place
Easy changing dies again speed is not the biggin here they slid they fit they hold heat
Dies heavy for holding heat and strong .

One that changes as do my needs ----- if I could know what that might be, that would be great
Free
While im dreaming can I get it in red
Bowie Damascus free
 
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