What kind of metal file to re-profile a bevel?

G

greebozz

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Jun 30, 2006
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Hi I'm looking for the easiest way to remove large amounts of metal on some of my knives. For example the primary bevel on a sabre grind. Or to slim down a flat grind blade that has been sharpened a lot. I also want to experiment turning some of my sabre grinds into Scandinavian edge profiles.

The thing is I'm mildly disabled in my hands and I'm looking for the fastest easiest method to take off a lot of metal. I'm not quite sure how metal files work with moderately tempered blades. I've worked with the 240 grit diamond hone and that's been quite good but I'm looking for something a lot quicker. I'm looking for non-power tool methods.

My enquiry about metal files is also to do with what coarseness I should get. Many thanks
 
A metal file will not bite into a knife blade already hardened up properly. The only faster way really are power tools like a belt sander being VERY mindful of temperture so you dont ruin the temper of the steel.
 
DMT sells a continuous 8" diamond hone that is EXTRA EXTRA Course, it is 120 grit. They can be found for around $70.
 
If you want an actual file with a handle, McMaster.com sells a diamond file that is 100 grit on one side, and 200 grit on the other side. The files working surface is 8". They cost $65.
 
You could try a Norton Crystolon oil stone. 8" x 2" x 1" combo stone (coarse/fine) is about $21. Coarse side is about 100 grit, fine is about 280.
 
I would "second" the recommendation for the Norton Crystolon. For rapid material removal of hardened knife steel, it works extremely well. It isn't as costly as a diamond plate as well. The diamond plate initially seems like the best route to take, but it really isn't. Diamond plates aren't meant to be used with much pressure, you'll tear the diamonds out. The SiC stone/Crystolon stone works VERY well with high pressure, and is friable, breaks down, exposing fresh abrasive. There is also a TASK garden hone. SiC as well, IIRC.

You can even try using wet/dry sandpaper with a hard backing, but "cheap" coarse SiC stones are probably the best route to take, IMHO. A file, as previously noted, is not for hardened steel.
 
I use metal files just fine. So long as you've good files, keep them clean, and don't wear them down with return strokes or poor storage they work fine. I use double cut bastards for initial shaping of a bevel, and 2nd cut mill files for everything else. Keep in mind, draw filing makes a much smoother finish than normal filing. I draw file before movibg up to sandpaper or stones.

Connor
 
I'd recommend a grinder of some sort, either a dremel if it's easier to use or a full size angle grinder. Not sure if that would be suitable for your needs...
 
Files are not for hardened steel. It's like saying you can use 800 grit sandpaper to cut a bevel. Yeah, you CAN, but it is not the right tool for the job. Hell, you can quickly wear the teeth out of a file by doing file skate tests on hardened stock.

They work well with mower blades, axe heads, things that are low 50s RC or under. But are quickly trashed if you're going to use them to cut bevels on hardened knife steel. Files are usually maybe 63HRC, and tempered steel on a knife is usually around 60 or so.
 
My old Nicholson files are made in the USA, the new ones are made in Brazil. I have a few knives they will cut, and many that they can't even put a mark on.
 
jpm2 said:
My old Nicholson files are made in the USA, the new ones are made in Brazil. I have a few knives they will cut, and many that they can't even put a mark on.
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This has been my experience as well. I've re-shaped and re-ground hardened stainless steel blades using regular files. I don't know the hardness level of those blades, but I doubt it was very high. Definitely high enough in some cases that I needed a carbide bit to drill it. Of course, without a Rockwell test I can't know for sure what the hardness of the files are either.

The OP never did say what knives he's looking to work on or what steel they're made of. So who knows, maybe a regular file would work.
 
Some new ones are made in Mexico as well.
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I just bought some monster size Nicholsons like 16 inches long for use at work. The ones I have at home are twenty years old and US made. They will scratch the new ones which are made in Mexico. The new ones work but I'm just sayin'.

As far as removing significant amounts of steel from a hardened blade, for the home shop person, I would say a Norton 3x 46 grit blue grinding wheel in 8 inch diameter. ~$50. Cuts fast and cool if you are vigilant.

Old photo I had around taken before I found some handles large enough to fit 'em.
 
I've been tinkering a little bit with a file lately (recent vintage Nicholson mill bastard file), on different blades. On common cutlery stainless in mid-high 50s HRC, like 420HC or 440A and similar, these don't seem to be much of an obstacle to a file. Leaves an edge pretty ragged by itself; but for just hogging metal off and setting new bevels, it works pretty fast. Also works pretty quickly in setting a new edge on some desk/utility scissors (Fiskars and similar), as I've also used it for that.

My Dad used to maintain the edge on his old Sabre 624 fishing knife (Japanese stainless; probably mid-50s HRC) with a small triangular file. Worked fine for that, leaving a toothy edge perfect for cleaning the rainbow and brown trout we used to catch on our fishing trips. I used a triangular file to repair some edge damage on my Leatherman Micra's scissors as well; that went VERY quickly and it surprised me how easy it was.


David
 
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Wowbagger said:
I just bought some monster size Nicholsons like 16 inches long for use at work. The ones I have at home are twenty years old and US made. They will scratch the new ones which are made in Mexico. The new ones work but I'm just sayin'.

As far as removing significant amounts of steel from a hardened blade, for the home shop person, I would say a Norton 3x 46 grit blue grinding wheel in 8 inch diameter. ~$50. Cuts fast and cool if you are vigilant.

Old photo I had around taken before I found some handles large enough to fit 'em.
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I have a made in usa one that's like 16 by 1.5-2 inches I forget. If it was made in Mexico id grind it to a knife but I ain't wasting a good USA file.
 
I've found that the Norton Crystolon will wear down/dish out very quickly. It will also clog quickly. I prefer the XX Coarse DMT. I've reprofiled many knives with mine and it's now mostly worn out after 7 years of frequent use. I didn't know about the McMaster but that sounds interesting.
 
AF said:
I've found that the Norton Crystolon will wear down/dish out very quickly. It will also clog quickly. I prefer the XX Coarse DMT. I've reprofiled many knives with mine and it's now mostly worn out after 7 years of frequent use. I didn't know about the McMaster but that sounds interesting.
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In case you or anyone else is interested, the specific file I was referencing over at McMaster.com is called an "Integrated-handle diamond file". If you do a search on Mcmaster for "diamond file" and scroll down a bit you'll see it. They also have a wide assortment of other diamond files, as well as carbide and regular files.
 
killgar said:
In case you or anyone else is interested, the specific file I was referencing over at McMaster.com is called an "Integrated-handle diamond file". If you do a search on Mcmaster for "diamond file" and scroll down a bit you'll see it. They also have a wide assortment of other diamond files, as well as carbide and regular files.
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Do you have any experience with that file?
 
AF said:
Do you have any experience with that file?
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No, I've never had a need for that particular file. I've bought several other files from McMaster, but not that one.
 
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