What Upstets Me About Knife Makers!

Ac a maker (relatively new maker) I tend to focus on making the knife the best I can. I have had other makers tell me how easy it is to make a shealth and increase the profit margin. My father even used to do leather work for a hobby and I have his tools around here someplace but, my name is on the knife so that is where I am going to concentrate mmy efforts. I have chosen to work with a couple of very good sheath makers, use them on my better knives and always give them credit for making the sheath. If cost is an issue an and I need to keep it down, I will just get a premade sheath from one of the supply companies, dye it and mold it to fit so the person does not have to walk around with a naked knife. I also have used the ballistic nylon sheaths on occasion but not Kydex. Just how I do it.
 
Other than the apparent quality visible in a custom made knife, a good looking sheath will be one of the best selling features. It should be viewed as "part of the package" which is a requisite in fixed blades. Many excellent knife makers who have invested years in their trade, and have learned the shortcuts in time invested, prefer to have professional sheathmaker make their sheaths. They can use their time more profitably with fabricating the knife than they can the sheath. The two trades are vastly different and most do not have the time or desire to master both. The volume of knifemakers that can fashion a professional sheath is small compared to the amount of knifemakers that can produce a good looking sheath. Kydex workers do not require the skills that are requisite in the fashioning of leather goods as it is functionally handicapped in most applications. Leather can more readily be embellished by forming, stamping, tooling and carving than Kydex. Both have their good qualities in differing applicatiions.

It is not feasible to build an expensive sheath for a knife that costs less than the sheath! This is where the el cheapo is found as it makes sense to keep the price down. Not all cheap sheaths lack good retention and service rendered, some are of materials that are not adequate for the job and should be discarded. These are often found on cheap factory produced knives so that the customer does not cut himself while carrying it from the shop where it was purchased.

Do not belittle the knifemaker because he is not proficient in the fabrication of leather or kydex sheaths---how many of you have mastered two or more trades? The automobile industry makes a lot of cars that roll on tires they do not make---get the idea?
 
I make both but came at this from the sheath side and I can tell you that they are two different skill sets with 2 very different sets of tools. There are times when I just want to focus on the knives when I get in that groove and there are times when I get into the leather groove. I can certainly understand a maker wanting to focus on only the knives and let someone deal with the sheaths. I've met makers who scoff at sheaths as if they are nothing but I'll tell you that it takes years to get good at it.
 
I am going to go out on a limb for the OP and propose that he may not have been refering specifially to custom knives. Look, for example, at Bark River. Those sheaths seem to be nothing much at all to write home about from what I can tell but I don't own one. In fact, I want one but the apparent inattention to the sheath sent me down another path. Kydex lacks any soul as far as I am concerned and I have made leather sheaths for my ESEEs. I won't bother making leather for my HEST or my Izula but my 3, 4, and 5 all have nice leather pants now. I'll keep the kydex for lash or molle carry.

For a full fledged custom like many shown above, I suspect that the buys are going to want their sheath to be as distinctive and as high quality as their knives and will thus engage two makers for the set.

So I suspect the OP may not have been pointing his finger at custom shops but rather at higher-end production knives...some of which come in pretty sad sheaths. I make my own but still. Nice thing about ESEE, souless kydex or not, the factory sheaths are very well made and very servicable.
 
Kydex is really a sheath material for working blades. No matter how well done, factory or custom, it's probably going to rub the blade a bit. And even the most expertly fitted kydex still looks like a plastic sheath. This isnt a knock--- a well fitted kydex sheath is a very useful thing. But...If I'm paying several hundred dollars for a custom that is destined to be a display piece then I want to pair an artistically done leather sheath with it.

This assumes that I would even get a sheath for it. A sheath for a safe queen seems a bit superfluous. You're never going to carry it anyway, so the sheath would be just another collectible bit of hand crafted work and theres no reason you have to buy it from the same person who made the knife.
 
I used to have an issue with knives delivered without sheaths. (Busse comes to mind).

But really, I want the type of sheath I want, and Don't want to pay for a sheath I just end up replacing.


High end customs, often will never be in a sheath, just a display case.

Often the sheath will be made to match the particular style knife. Great stuff if so.

I started making my own leather just because I wanted to.

On some knives, sheaths should be optional. If I am actually not paying for the sheath, I am ok with the knife not coming with a sheath.

If the knife maker offers a sheath with the knife, I am ok with that too.

A lot of custom makers also make killer sheaths.
 
Right now, I work in Leather only. Kydex is fitting for some styles of knives. If a customer asked for a kydex sheath I would make or have a Kydex sheath made.

Don't limit yourself with a kydex or not interested mind set. You will miss out on some great knives.

Or learn to make a kydex sheath yourself. It part of the tinkering and embellisment of this hobby.

FB
 
In reading this thread I've seen pretty much the same generalizations both stated and in some cases implied.

Kydex: Is ugly and scratches knives
Leather: Rots and causes rust but is pretty
Knife makers should make killer sheaths
Sheath makers charge too much
Sheath making is easy

"Rant"

Earlier in the thread someone asked about "what must P*ss off knife makers"....BINGO and add Sheath Makers to that as well. I'll sum up and say "The sense of entitlement" some folks seem to feel.

Bad news....there is NO obligation on the part of any craftsman to do things to please "you" unless you enter into a "contract" for custom goods (which by golly, you'll be paying for). If you're that convinced you're right, then step up and do it yourself. Yep, there's plenty of "room" for you to start your own business and prove us all wrong...we dare you! In the mean time, don't tell us how to make a "perfect" whatever...and DON'T tell us what we're doing wrong, it's rude, it's tiresome, and it makes us crabby!

On a more "civil" note, and after several "calming breaths"....

If you'd like a maker to do something "special" for you, ask questions like "could you maybe..... I really like this but would you be willing to... That's really interesting. What's the intent?" This will make life much more pleasant for all.

On "generalizations":

Knife making and sheath making are totally different skill sets (Like a few others who have posted, I do both). Leather and Kydex work are also different skill sets.

None of those skill sets are easily acquired, though the concept that drives the process is really quite simple....

I liken it to paying a master plumber to work on your new house vs. DIY.. His work will be done more quickly, more accurately (thereby passing inspections the first time out) and will no doubt be trouble free for many years. For the love of Pete, all he's doing is running pipe around right? Ever try laying carpet? Did that once, and I'm quite happy to pay the pros now!

All this adds up to "due compensation" hence the price difference between an adequate knife/sheath and a superior one. You get what you pay for most of the time and sometimes you get more or less. It's on you to find the "bargain".

Not all Kydex or Leather sheaths are created equal (or by equally skilled craftsmen) just as all knives are not.

No matter who made the sheath, it cost both money and time...expect to pay for it. If you don't pay much, don't expect much and by golly don't demand "free".

No matter what a knife maker (or production company) provides at least half the folks who like the knife will be unhappy. Some times you will be included in that "half". When that happens, ask youself what you are buying...a knife or "a package" then either buy the thing or don't.

In summary, before "you" plunk down any more generalizations, ask yourself if you've really done your homework or are you just assuming you're an authority because you own some knives and sheaths. Doing your "homework" tends to make your life more pleasant in the long run while "punditry" tends to cause "discontent". There's always stuff you don't know, and things you haven't seen. :cool:
 
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I would also like to add to Oku's statements.........


The first time you make a sheath your self, you will understand how underpriced a quality sheath is!!!

I have made 5 or 6 sheaths now (leather), and know now how much time goes into leather (even a poorly made one like mine). Now, obviously a pro takes much less time, and has the proper tools, but it is still time consuming and hard work.

Making a sheath for me, by hand, and stitched by hand takes some real time. Punching the holes on a taco style leather sheath for a 11.5 inch blade is very very time consuming for me.
 
If I were to say what I really think of the OP's premise of kydex being the primo sheath material, I'd be banned in 2.5 seconds flat!:barf::barf::barf:
 
I myself don't like making sheaths, either kydex or leather. I had one guy say he wasn't happy with the sheath, and I thought I did a heck of a job. I put in my for sale posts that the knife comes with a simple leather or kydex sheath. He was going to get someone to make him another. I really need to find a good local sheath maker cause I take way too long messing around with sheaths. I could clear out orders alot faster if I had someone else make them. I told the guy who complained what was it that he didn't like and he never responded. Maybe he wanted a fancy tooled sheath, I don't know. What I do know is leather work is tough especially if there is not a passion for doing the work like making knives is for me. When I sell a knife I really am only charging for the material that goes into the sheath, not the two to three hours that goes into it. I just make something nice so they can carry the knife I sell them.
 
I was going through some of the old post looking for a particular one when I came across this one. I couldnt help but to reply. I have to say, I appreciate that the knive makers(not all) and nearly all manufacturers make medioker sheaths. This has opened a whole new world for me. I love making sheaths for all the sheathless knives Ive bought over the years. I can be as creative as im able and am always learning more and getting better as I go. Ive taken the same approach to knife making...I really dont like most the manufactured blades...customs were to expensive for me!I didnt want to pay for something I knew I would love to make myself and to take on that journey and go through all the learning curves that go with it. This has to be the reason we have knife makers and sheath makers...they both love what they do and at some point thought they could do better then what was put out by the manufacturers......I say thanks to all the "just average" knives and sheaths out there!
 
I was thinking to myself "Why this thread resurrection????" Then I saw this post and thought to myself " If ever I have experienced foreshadowing, this is it!"

TimWilson said:
If I were to say what I really think of the OP's premise of kydex being the primo sheath material, I'd be banned in 2.5 seconds flat!:barf::barf::barf:
Click to expand...

:p
 
TheCarbideRat said:
Guns wont shoot you if you stash them in your belt or pocket
Click to expand...

Really? Plaxico Burris certainly comes to mind for me. Dancing at a club with a Glock in his pants and blew some l of his "upper thigh" off...and got arrested for a felony to boot.
 
Well, the market and the law of supply & demand will work in this area . . like with other products. If enough buyers feel like the OP, knife makers will come up with a variety of sheath options including leather and kydex for their customers. They may make the sheaths themselves or arrange something with a sheath maker. It is convenient and a time saver to be able to buy the appropriate kydex or leather sheath at the same time as the knife. It isn't a dealbreaker for me if the kind of sheath I want has to be bought from someone else, if I really like a unique knife design. If the knife is similiar to others, (such as many bushcraft fixed blade knives), I could very well buy the knife that came with the sheath that I wanted.
 
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