What's the general consensus on skeleton tangs?

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kaizo

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Oct 17, 2014
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I've heard that it is better to use a skeleton tang than a stick tang in general but what's everybody's opinion on this? I'm sure if I over do it then it will affect the structural integrity but I'm thinking of just drilling a few holes out to balance the knife which is a bit too handle heavy at the moment. Is there any rule of thumb of how much metal I can remove safely?

Thanks for your help :)
 
On small knives I drill 3 or 4 1/4" holes. On large ones 4 or 5. I keep them at least 1/4" from the edge. It also helps with epoxy adhesion.
 
Ah ok thanks :)

do you think its better to have big and less holes or basically swiss cheese the tang?
 
I often swiss cheese, especially if I don't taper the tang. Sometimes 15 or so 1/4" holes on a large hunter.
 
I usually taper tangs on hunters, but on tactical I leave it full tang and drill some holes as well as grind the tang with a concave groove on both sides. It removes a lot of weight and really gives the epoxy a nice area to adhere to.
 
This one got Damascus bolsters and ironwood scales so more material was removed than I normally do. It ended up with a pretty perfect balance right at the guard.
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Tangs are a lot of fun to work with! Reducing weight by drilling holes, grinding in concaves, and/or tapering can make even a large heavy knife feel comfortable and lively in use. It may seem weird, but tang design is one of my favorite parts of knifemaking, because it has such an impact on balance. A client can't see the thought and work that goes into it, but when they pick up your knife and say, "Dang, that feels nice!" ... you will smile. :)

I do not like a knife that feels like a brick in my hand. For an example of how a big sturdy knife should feel in hand, go to a serious knife show and pick up some ABS journeyman/mastersmith bowies... those cats understand balance. :thumbup:

If the knife is small and/or light to begin with, you can swiss-cheese that bad boy til it looks almost like a spider-web if you want... strength isn't a huge issue because you're not going to be placing very much stress on it in use.

I'm not an engineer, so take this with a grain of salt... but I feel like if you leave a third of the steel intact, you'll still have very good strength and rigidity in the tang. That's about what you would have with a well-made hidden tang, like the ABS-style bowies I mentioned... which are plenty strong. Just avoid sharp inside corners, and lightly counter-sink the holes, to avoid stress risers.

I don't place a whole lot of faith on the strength of "epoxy rivets" as some makers extol (ever try to break a piece of cured epoxy? It's remarkably easy). But more surface area for the epoxy to adhere to is certainly not a bad thing. Some makers even drill shallow divots all over the tang, just to give more surface area for their adhesive.

Do not drill holes or divots too close to the perimeter of the tang and then grind into them when you finish shaping the handle. That will make you say bad words. Don't ask me how I know this... :o :eek:
 
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Thanks for that Kevin. :)

Mine actually would have both a pommel and bolster so I probably should lighten mine by quit a bit too!

And thank you James for the tips! I'll keep a good amount of steel around the perimeter for good measure :)
 
I tried the Swiss cheese method on tangs and liners, that didn't work for me as I ran into what James described. I'm not good enough to get the fit that close to where I don't have to shape much after glue up. It resulted in wasted blades and materials. So if you Swiss cheese it keep it far from the perimeter
 
James brings up a great point. Incresed surface area for contact is a great thing but if it is an expoxy filled void, it adds very little to the strength of the bond. Expoy has great shear strength in thin films especially when the surface can absorb some of the resin. Wood is a great exaple of this. However a blob of epoxy is brittle and has little strength on it own. To get an actual increase in surface area adhesion you would have to make corresponding rises on side of the bond to match exactly the voids you created in the other. Thus if you made a bunch of dimples in the scales you would have to have matching bumps in the tang.
In all likelyhood, it probably does not matter one way or the other as modern expoxies are pretty sturdy overall. But they were not meant to fill voids with any expectation of added strength.
 
Thank you for the reply Robert. Does that mean that if I were to drill holes in the tang there would be a point where the loss of surface area from drilling reduce the effectiveness of the epoxy making the handle more vulnerable?
 
Kaizo, to answer your most previous question, I would say probably not. If you have 1/3 of the steel left and say 15 holes that create epoxy bridges, I can't imagine there being a loss of effectiveness that would be recognizable even under harsh abuse. The increase of surface area is definitely better than say a non Swiss cheesed tang but up to a point I can't imagine it changing it any more. I usually do about 10 1/8 or so holes. I've not noticed a difference in durability. Hopefully someone will weigh in and further answer your question
 
Kaizo, I really don't think that in most applications knife scales really get the kind of abuse that would cause even a halfway decent job to fail. Surface prep is the key. Roughing both surfaces with 80 or even 50 grit and making sure both surfaces as clean and oil free as possible will always give you your best bet. In the end, I think drilling out the tang affects knife balance much more than epoxy adhesion.
 
The further you get towards the butt end of the knife handle, the less strength you need in the tang. So you can safely drill more/bigger holes towards the rear. Holes at this end also have a bigger effect on balance.
 
Fantastic :)

Thanks everyone I think I will go ahead and drill some holes in my tang then! ;)
 
I've reduced the belly a bit since this sketch but I had a few photocopy so I used this. Is this too many holes? The hatched ones are the pins and the blank ones are the places I am thinking of putting holes in. I've added some clearence around the perimeter to avoid disappointment too. :)

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I left most of the bolster part untouched since it is a stress area but should I do them too?

Thanks for your help everyone :)
 
kaizo said:
Does that mean that if I were to drill holes in the tang there would be a point where the loss of surface area from drilling reduce the effectiveness of the epoxy making the handle more vulnerable?
Click to expand...

No.

Stop thinking about epoxy having anything to do with the knife's overall strength... seriously, that's just not a factor that makes any real difference.
 
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Excellent thanks I think I'm ok to go ahead with it now. Thanks for your help everyone! :)
 
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