what's the max legal barrel length for handguns...

A

AmadeusM

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...to still be classified as handguns and thus legal to carry on the body (edited: not the body so much) or inside the vehicle loaded?

Does this vary from state to state?

Thanks.
 
Huh?

A handgun is a handgun, unless it has a shoulder stock, then it is rifle if and only if its barrel is over 16". If the barrel is under 16", it is a Short Barreled Rifle, and thus subject to the 1934 NFA.

It may also become an NFA weapon if it has a front control grip (like an SP89 with an MP5K forend)

What length are you considering? The longer, the less handy it becoems, obviously...
 
I'm not sure there is a barrle length limit in Oregon at least. When I took my CHL class (which was years ago), the instructor (who was a lawyer specializing in self-defense cases) explained that Oregon has very few limitations on the type of gun you can carry with a CHL except that it has to be a HANDgun, one which is primarily supported by the hand when fired, no stock, no tripod, no sling. He showed a picture of a pistol with an attached device which was being marketed at the time which was supposed to transfer some of the weight and recoil to the forearm. He pointed out that an Oregon court had recently ruled that a gun so equipped was no longer a HANDgun. One student asked about a gun with a front control grip. His response was that that would be fine if it had no stock or sling. Another asked about a pistol-gripped shotgun. His response was that if you can figure out how to conceal it, it would be fine if it had no stock or sling.
 
It's probably best not to push the envelope on this. There are definitely gray areas to this question, which often means that it's going to be up to the judgement of the officer on the scene. For example, if you saw off a shotgun barrel to 12 inches and try to claim it's a handgun because it has a pistol grip, you're probably going to get screwed if you're caught with it, or worse if you use it. Think Ruby Ridge. I'd guess the same would be true if you tried to carry a Thompson Contender .45-70 with a 14 inch barrel concealed. Technically, it's a pistol, but it looks like you're looking for trouble, and if a LEO or a lawyer has a reason to make you look bad, they definitely could. If you have a real need for serious firepower, I'd say stick with standard issue handguns. I can't imagine too many self-defense situations in which a .44 Mag with full-house loads and a 6" or 8" barrel is not enough gun.
 
The quick answer is, there is no maximum length on a pistol (revolver, semi-auto, single shot). There is no minimum length on a pistol.

A .45-70 Contender (not an ideal choice for a defensive weapon) is still a pistol and if you a legally capable of carrying a pistol concealed it is a pistol. A pistol can be in pretty much any caliber .50 and under as long as it was a pistol at the time of manufacture ie; no shoulder stock. As soon as a stock or forward grip is placed on a handgun it falls under NFA.

Rifles and shotguns are never technically a pistol. It can be an short barreled rifle/shotgun or an Any Other Weapon (AOW) which both bring it under NFA regulations. Some pistols and derringers are capable of firing a .410 shotgun round. They are not technically shotguns since they have rifled barrels. I am leaving out machine guns here because they have a few more variations but they do fall under NFA regulations.

I hope that helps

KS
 
You're never going to run into the problem with anything currently manufactured.

However, a pistol gripped shotgun (if it has a barrel less than 18") or a pistol with a forward grip is an AOW.
 
My thought process was primarily about a handgun in the vehicle (in addition to the handgun concealed on the body). This gun could be carried in a bag or a box of some sort, maybe a briefcase, on longer out of town trips and stuff, where I wouldn't have to leave it in the car too long for thieves to steal.

So, if weight and concealment issues are effectively out of the equation, we could allow ourselves a bit more barrel length and heavier calibers.

How long do the barrels run on the Desert Eagle pistols?

Revolvers, do they come in with barrels longer than 10"?
 
The longest barrel I've seen on a current production revolver without a stock is the 10 inch one on those new S&W .460s, and they weigh more than 5 pounds (and cost $1400). However, if this gun is not to be your primary defensive weapon, and you're going to carry it in the car cased, then you might as well take along a real rifle and leave it unloaded until you need it. My personal preference for something like this is the old Marlin .30-30 lever action carbine. Easy handling, plenty of power, and non-threatening to onlookers. Plus, I could hit a man-sized target at 100 yards almost with my eyes closed. Doing that with a revolver would take some practice, even with a 10-inch barrel.
 
AmadeusM said:
My thought process was primarily about a handgun in the vehicle (in addition to the handgun concealed on the body). This gun could be carried in a bag or a box of some sort, maybe a briefcase, on longer out of town trips and stuff, where I wouldn't have to leave it in the car too long for thieves to steal.

So, if weight and concealment issues are effectively out of the equation, we could allow ourselves a bit more barrel length and heavier calibers.

How long do the barrels run on the Desert Eagle pistols?

Revolvers, do they come in with barrels longer than 10"?
Click to expand...

If you're thinking about a trunk gun a pistol is a piss poor choice. Put a carbine in the trunk secure with a mounted locking device, something in 223 or 7.62x39. you're not going to effectively increase your firepower with a larger pistol.
 
I'm not following your logic. Why get a larger, more awkward pistol? They are more cumbersome, don't offer more capacity, and the rounds are marginally more effective than other handgun rounds. On top of that the pistols and ammo you're thinking about are more costly, meaning less practice.

Use a good combat pistol, or follow Victory's advice and get a carbine in a rifle caliber. Then buy a discreet case from Eagle or BHI and your problem is solved.
 
A longer barrel allows me to get the most juice out of a hot round, and, at the same time, allows for better control while shooting.

A .44 Mag or .480 Ruger is hardly just marginally more effective than a 9mm or a .45. Also, cannot legally have a loaded rifle in the seat next to me.
 
With a pistol cartridge too long a barrel actually slows the bullet down, from friction continuing after the powder has all burnt. Pistol cartridges typically reach maximum velocity in 10-14" and after that they lose a little.
 
Good point there.

I wonder what a revolver in .223 Remington (via clips of some sort) and a 14" inch barrel would feel like...
 
AmadeusM said:
A longer barrel allows me to get the most juice out of a hot round, and, at the same time, allows for better control while shooting.

A .44 Mag or .480 Ruger is hardly just marginally more effective than a 9mm or a .45. Also, cannot legally have a loaded rifle in the seat next to me.
Click to expand...

Actually, against humans, a 44 mag or 480 ruger is only marginally more effective than a 9mm or 45. Neither rounds have enough velocity to cause significant cavitation like a rifle round. They punch approximately the same size hole in one side and out the other.

It's not worth discussing the difference in wounding potential between pistol rounds. Pistols punch holes, rifles tear shit up.

AmadeusM said:
Good point there.

I wonder what a revolver in .223 Remington (via clips of some sort) and a 14" inch barrel would feel like...
Click to expand...

The only 223 caliber pistols out there are based on the AR15 platform. I do not recommend them. The short barrel causes the velocity of the 223 to be too low to permit fragmentation, which is a major wounding factor in the 223.
 
AR-15 handgun? Interesting, to say the least. :)

So, at what velocity level does the wound character change?

My ASSumption was that at let's say, 50 yards, the difference between a .44 Mag from a 10 inch barrel and a .40 from a 4 inch barrel would be greater (in terms of performance on the target) than between the said .44 and a .223 rifle.

Thanks again. :)
 
My ASSumption was that at let's say, 50 yards, the difference between a .44 Mag from a 10 inch barrel and a .40 from a 4 inch barrel would be greater (in terms of performance on the target) than between the said .44 and a .223 rifle.
Click to expand...

OK, time for a reality check.

1. Why do you believe that you're going to engage in a gunfight at 50 yards or beyond?
2. Unless you're an LEO, the only gadget you're going to need should you engage in and survive such an encounter is a criminal attorney.
 
A factory 180gr .40 S&W round might run at about 1000 fps. A 240gr .44 Mag round might run at about 1300 fps. Meanwhile, a 170gr .30-30 runs at about 2200 fps, a 165gr .308 at 2700 fps, and a 55gr .223 rifle bullet runs at 3100 fps or more. As victory said, rifle rounds are really a whole different world, ballistically. Long-barreled pistols and pistol-round carbines are not rifles, and they never will be.

As to Geraldo's reality check, I've been working under the assumption that you live out in the bush somewhere, and might have to take out a big coyote at medium distance, or something like that. If you're in Bear Country, Alaska, you're nuts to even consider a handgun. And if you're thinking that you might someday need to keep a heavy weapon loaded on the car seat beside you for self-defense against humans, you're living in either a dreamworld or a warzone.
 
AmadeusM said:
AR-15 handgun? Interesting, to say the least. :)

So, at what velocity level does the wound character change?

My ASSumption was that at let's say, 50 yards, the difference between a .44 Mag from a 10 inch barrel and a .40 from a 4 inch barrel would be greater (in terms of performance on the target) than between the said .44 and a .223 rifle.

Thanks again. :)
Click to expand...

a 44 and 223 have significantly different wounding mechanisms. pistols poke holes about the size of their expanded diameter (assuming you're using a hollowpoint). High velocity rifle rounds either cause massive cavitation or fragment causing big messy wounds that pulverize internal organs and disrupt the central nervous system.

I know your line of thought, you're thinking "well people hunt grizzly bears with a 44, and no one considers 40 or 223 a good caliber for grizzly bears." The truth is large game aren't humans. Large game require heavy deep penetrating rounds to reach their vital organs, humans on the other hand are thin skinned fragile creatures. If a bullet penetrates to the vital organs, there's no need to go further, a 45 through the heart is the same as a 44magnum through the heart, just the 44 keeps going down the street.

Geraldo said:
OK, time for a reality check.

1. Why do you believe that you're going to engage in a gunfight at 50 yards or beyond?
Click to expand...

A friend of mine is a volunteer firefighter in a rural area. Since his district is very large, occasionally volunteers will put out brush fires in their personal vehicles rather than wait for a brush truck which could be a long wait and brush fires spread very quickly. The problem is occasionally these brush fires are started by people cooking meth and they open fire on you when you approach. That's an easy way to get into a gunfight at extended distances.

In an urban setting, where i live, a college student was pinned down in his dormatory parking lot by a guy firing a pistol from across Interstate 95. Rifle would have solved that problem quick.

Finally, the reason for a semi-automatic rifle isn't just for extended range, but increased firepower and lethality. People shot with pistols usually stumble away, or continue fighting, they either die later or they don't. A good shot with a rifle tends to make people dead right there.
 
shot a buds bushmaster AR15 pistol last weekend, has a laser sight on it, 30 round mag, functions ok(i have heard a lot dont), acceptable accuracy, gotta be the loudest thing on the planet, not to mention horrendous muzzle blast, ya definitely want some ear protection with this one lol, would be a pretty neat little weapon with a collapsable stock & a suppresor, as it is its fun to play with but i can think of dozens of better rifles/pistols to have if ya REALLY needed it (ie self defense). if ya had to shoot it at nite it would destroy your nite vision is one con i can think of. very coarse sites are another, i guess ya could depend on the laser though. just not what i would want in that role myself.

with the way the law is i cant believe ya would be legal with a pistol & not a rifle/shotgun, pistols are much more highly regulated in my state FWIW.

FWIW they also make AK pistols, havent shot one of them yet though.
 
the problem with the AR pistols, despite reliability issues, is that the muzzle velocity with 55gr ball ammo is under 2600fps. While it's still gonna put a hurt on someone, that round only fragments above 2700fps so you loose a lot of wounding potential. That and a pistol that size is totally unweildy and impractical.

I don't suggest 223 rifles shorter than 16". Not only is it a better weapon but you don't have to bother with regestering an SBR.

Some states have strange laws though. In PA i could transport a loaded pistol with my concealed handgun permit, but a loaded rifle would be against state game regulations (punishable by a small fine)
 
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