Recommendation? Where can I buy 416 Stainless steel in 1/2" & 5/8" thick?

C

coldsteelburns

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Aug 2, 2010
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I've been searching quite a bit over the last few days and I can't seem to find any knife supplier that sells 416 in these thicknesses, or anything really over 3/8", which is thinner than I'm wanting to use. I searched for other online metal supplies and 416 seems to only come in round stock, at least for the sites that actually sell their metal online and in small quantities without having to request a quote.

I also searched ebay and everything they have is hundreds of dollars and at least 3 feet long, which is much more than I need and can afford.

I did some searching and it sounds like 304 SS is too hard to work with and shape with normal tools, which I do remember reading about in the past

I did however read one maker praise working with 303 SS which is pretty abundantly available and in the sizes I'm wanting, but that's the only maker who said anything about it. Everyone else seems to think that 300 series is not the way to go, so I figure this includes 303, 304, 316 etc. On the other hand, everybody also says that 416 is the way to go, but I'm guessing they all must be using it in 3/8" and under as I just can't find it :confused: lol


Questions:

So at the title reads, my question is, does anybody here know where can I get some 416 flat stock in 1/2" and 5/8" thicknesses? I really don't need (and probably can't afford) anything over a foot in length.

Also, is 410 that much harder to work with than 416? I was able to find that as well for sale in the thickness I'm looking for. And, does anybody else here have any experience working with 303 (not 304)? I don't have a mill so my guard slotting will be done with drill bits and files, if that makes any difference.

Thanks.

~Paul
My Youtube Channel
... (It's been a few years since my last upload)
 
With the added sulfur, 303 is the machineable grade of the austenitic stainless steels. It works quite well. I just don't use it because it won't hold on my surface grinder. If you're going to clamp it in a vise then it would serve you just fine.
410 is not a machine grade of stainless like 416 - it lacks the sulfur.
 
I wanted some thick rectangular pieces to do the guard on a dagger, but found the round rod cheaper and more easily available.
(also often I do want a round piece)
It is probably more work than you want to go through, but I bought round rod 416 in 0.75", 1", 1.25" and 1.5".

I then used the formula for the "chord of a circle".
Bottom line is you can flatten the sides of a 1.25" round bar and obtain a rectangle 0.75" x 1", which is what I did.
It wasn't as bad as it sounds and I managed to square up a 4" length pretty quickly and precisely enough for my purpose.
 
410 isn't as easy to machine on paper, but for our uses, and with good cutters, the difference is negligible in my experience.

I use 410 entirely, because it's much more form-able than 416. The added sulfur makes 416 work harden and splinter when cold shaping, i.e. doming pins, so I use 410 for my liners/bolster, and machine these integrally often. I also use it for fittings on fixed blades, and have had no issues getting a nice finish cuts on the inside of guard slots or bolsters/pockets, using AlTiN coated carbide cuttings and appropriate feeds, even without using flood coolant. You can also get 410 round stock for pins that is accurate with a bright finish, and the batch to batch variation isn't as high, so pivots from 410 in 410 hide consistently. I've had 416 that was noticeably different color from 10 feet away, even with a perfectly "hidden" pin. It's also available in a lot more dimensions, including thin sheet.


For heavy machining, or production work, yes, 416 can be highly advantageous. Bear in mind, even with thick stock, the only part of a guard slot that has to be machined "perfectly" is the mating portion at the top of the guard, maybe 10-20 thou deep, it's actually advantageous to relieve (over mill) the rest of it to make fitting easier, just like tapering the tang behind that area, as an irregularity in another portion, can manifest as sloppy guard fit.
 
Perfect, Thanks guys!

Thanks Valknut, I've never shopped at tru-grit so I completely forgot they sold more than just belts.
I had considered that but I want the guard to be a single piece for the style I'm trying to make, also an extra piece would possibly give me an extra headache at my current experience in making stainless fittings lol . Looks like tru-grit has both 1/2" and 5/8" so it looks like I'm set, as long as they don't run out of stock :)

DAMNENG, I had also completely forgot about McMaster. Unfortunately their bar stock is all square in dimension, so 1/2" and 5/8" wouldnt be wide enough to work with, and 1" and up would be too much

Karl, you were actually the maker I was referring to who seemed to like 303 in an older thread I was reading. Just curious, but did you switch from 303 to using 416 after getting a surface grinder? I am actually in the middle of making a knife inspired by one of your hunters, hence the reason for the extra thick guard stock. Plus I just like the way it looks. :thumbsup: Also, where do you happen to get your guard stock from? It's always nice to have more than one source just in case ;)


Thanks for the idea Richard, but as you said, it honestly is much more than I want to do lol



Thanks again.

~Paul
My Youtube Channel

... (It's been a few years since my last upload)
 
Thanks Javan, that's great info. I had read a couple of similar posts regarding working with it, basically, as you said, that 410 is not as easily machined as 416, but for the size and amount of material that goes onto a knife it's really not that bad.

Would you say it's it pretty workable with merely cobalt drill bits and files? I don't have a mill.

I'm always glad to know that another maker successfully uses something before I try messing with it!


~Paul
My Youtube Channel
... (It's been a few years since my last upload)
 
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I like 410 for general use, too. I tend to have cutoffs from round bars forged down for san mai, which I can then use for other stuff. It beats the heck out of machining or filing 304! And yes, it drills and files fine.
 
I’ve used both 410 and 416 for guards, and I didn’t know they were different. Thanks javand for the information. 304, on the other hand.... I did my first stainless guard in 304, and it took forever with cobalt twist drills and needle files.
 
coldsteelburns said:
Perfect, Thanks guys!

Thanks Valknut, I've never shopped at tru-grit so I completely forgot they sold more than just belts.
I had considered that but I want the guard to be a single piece for the style I'm trying to make, also an extra piece would possibly give me an extra headache at my current experience in making stainless fittings lol . Looks like tru-grit has both 1/2" and 5/8" so it looks like I'm set, as long as they don't run out of stock :)

DAMNENG, I had also completely forgot about McMaster. Unfortunately their bar stock is all square in dimension, so 1/2" and 5/8" wouldnt be wide enough to work with, and 1" and up would be too much

Karl, you were actually the maker I was referring to who seemed to like 303 in an older thread I was reading. Just curious, but did you switch from 303 to using 416 after getting a surface grinder? I am actually in the middle of making a knife inspired by one of your hunters, hence the reason for the extra thick guard stock. Plus I just like the way it looks. :thumbsup: Also, where do you happen to get your guard stock from? It's always nice to have more than one source just in case ;)


Thanks for the idea Richard, but as you said, it honestly is much more than I want to do lol



Thanks again.

~Paul
My Youtube Channel
... (It's been a few years since my last upload)
Click to expand...
 
Willie71 said:
I’ve used both 410 and 416 for guards, and I didn’t know they were different. Thanks javand for the information. 304, on the other hand.... I did my first stainless guard in 304, and it took forever with cobalt twist drills and needle files.
Click to expand...

Definitely different, a lot of the 416 "pin stock" I've seen offered isn't even properly annealed, and usually has mill scale on the outside of it, and isn't dimensionally accurate, even when you remove the mill scale, it's not very clean or round, and a lot of slipjoint makers have unknowingly suffered problems hiding a pin because of this.

The *ONLY* advantage IMO of 416 is it's machine-ability. Another really nice advantage of 410 I didn't mention, is it's pretty common availability as precision ground stock, which is a big advantage for making pocket knives or fittings with limited tools.
 
coldsteelburns said:
Thanks Javand, that's great info. I had read a couple of similar posts regarding working with is, basically, as you said, that 410 not as easily machined as 416, but for a size and amount of material that goes onto a knife here it's really not that bad.

Would you say it's it pretty workable with merely cobalt drill bits and files? I don't have a mill.

I'm always glad to know that another maker successfully uses something before I try messing with it!


~Paul
My Youtube Channel
... (It's been a few years since my last upload)
Click to expand...

Yeah absolutely, just use good quality drills with it. It drills so easily I can't recall ever being "actively aware" I was drilling it. Unlike Ti or other trickier to machine materials. Hell 15n20 is MUCH worse to drill, because of the nickel.
 
Where are you getting 410? I have been using 416, but can’t always get pin stock in 3/32. And when I do, it has scale like mentioned above. Also the flat stock is sheared, so I waste a lot of material just squaring up the edges.
 
JHAller said:
Where are you getting 410? I have been using 416, but can’t always get pin stock in 3/32. And when I do, it has scale like mentioned above. Also the flat stock is sheared, so I waste a lot of material just squaring up the edges.
Click to expand...


Jantz has nice 410 material for liners, bolsters, guards etc. Although it's readily available from industrial suppliers if you want more options and are willing to buy in volume.

410 pin stock can be had in the form of ER-410 tig rod. Crown brand rod is dimensionally perfect and nicely bright finished. I'd almost swear it was ground, it's so nice.

Sometimes the smaller pieces of 410 liner material from Jantz (or they used to be) were sheared, but pretty nicely, and comes in large enough pieces you can just stay off the edges. Lately I've been using their 1/8" or 3/16" sheet stock for integrals, and it's very nice material. It's not precision ground, but it's very clean bright finish, nice and flat, nicely cut.

Precision Marshall offers PG 410 stock also, if you want something that's as near perfect as you're gonna buy off the shelf, but it's pricier of course. McMaster carries it, check the "tight tolerance 410 sheet and bar" section. They also carry larger sizes of sheet for liner material and it's always nice, although if you use a lot, I'd just get it wholesale from a sheet/strip provider, just make sure you let them know you expect nice flat, never coiled stock.
 
javand said:
Jantz has nice 410 material for liners, bolsters, guards etc. Although it's readily available from industrial suppliers if you want more options and are willing to buy in volume.

410 pin stock can be had in the form of ER-410 tig rod. Crown brand rod is dimensionally perfect and nicely bright finished. I'd almost swear it was ground, it's so nice.

Sometimes the smaller pieces of 410 liner material from Jantz (or they used to be) were sheared, but pretty nicely, and comes in large enough pieces you can just stay off the edges. Lately I've been using their 1/8" or 3/16" sheet stock for integrals, and it's very nice material. It's not precision ground, but it's very clean bright finish, nice and flat, nicely cut.

Precision Marshall offers PG 410 stock also, if you want something that's as near perfect as you're gonna buy off the shelf, but it's pricier of course. McMaster carries it, check the "tight tolerance 410 sheet and bar" section. They also carry larger sizes of sheet for liner material and it's always nice, although if you use a lot, I'd just get it wholesale from a sheet/strip provider, just make sure you let them know you expect nice flat, never coiled stock.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I forgot about Jantz. I just placed an order!
 
JHAller said:
Thanks. I forgot about Jantz. I just placed an order!
Click to expand...

Haha yeah, I usually do also, until I'm looking for something like this.

They really carry a LOT more stuff than just about any other supplier, but even their "New and Improved" website is a bit difficult to navigate. They'll probably send you a catalog.
 
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