Recommendation? Which Heat Treat Kiln?

ScarFoot

ScarFoot

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Sep 16, 2021
Messages
710
I’m hoping to order a new heat treat kiln/oven in the next month or so and was wanting to get some feedback. I think my three front runners in no particular order are the Evenheat LB22 or LB27, Paragon KM24, and Hot Shot HS-24K. These all fall between $2500-$5000.

I’m looking for 220V and probably a 22”-27” depth. I have limited space and honestly don’t see myself needing anything larger than that in the foreseeable future.

My questions are:
Do any of you have experience with any of these?

The Paragon is almost twice the price of the others. Is it worth it?

Is it worth a few hundred more dollars to get a gas/argon hookup?

A couple of them offer the TAP control system which seems interesting. Is it any good?

I’m also considering getting a standalone programmable tempering oven (not a toaster), do any of you have one?

What am I missing that I should be thinking about?
 
ScarFoot ScarFoot I have an Evenheat KF22.5....which is the predecessor to the LB series. I love the Evenheat design and has always provided very good results for me. If I had to replace this one, I would consider 2 things:
1. The KO model (KnifeOven) is a little more than the LB and advertised at Higher Temp. While you may never need to go above the LB standard range (I wouldn't) they do this by increase the brick thickness to provide better insulation (think quick heat up and lower losses). I'd bite for that.
2. They are big anyway...get the longest one you can afford and fit in place.

I also do tempering in my single oven, but if I were a rich man, that stacked unit they do with a tempering oven sure looks nice :)

Best,
John
 
I have the Hotshot 18 inch model. It was delivered undamaged, it performs flawlessly and is extremely well made. I love my Hotshot oven!
Jeff
 
Been using an Evenheat LB27 with the TAP controller for a bit over a year maybe 40 knives including a monster 24" Khukri (like object) in 52100. The TAP controller with wifi monitoring is very handy. It handles stainless very nicely. Love it but I don't have anything to compare it to.
I imagine you can buy a lot of foil and decarb coating for a few Hundred not to mention the Argon tank and regulator.
I stick with my residential kitchen over for tempering. I doubt I'll temper at temps it can't reach. To me the Evenheat doesn't cool down quick enough and retains too much heat to run tempering cycles immediately after hardening.
FYI- unless you are ordering a "ready to ship" model your are looking at 4 to 6 weeks for delivery.
Hope this helps.
 
Thanks for all the feedback so far. I’ve never really had any interest in owning or making swords and it will probably be several years before I can expand my shop so outside of making a random machete or something. Most everything I’m currently interested in making would be no longer than 16”-18”. I’m currently limited to about 11.5”. At this point I’d really like to be able to make a few choppers and start dabbling in kitchen cutlery. I just have very limited space right now or I’d get the biggest one they had.

I’m curious about the argon hookup because if it cut down on scale significantly it would probably pay for itself in belt life pretty quickly. But, if it didn’t work well, it wouldn’t be worth it.

I’ve been looking at the Evenheat kiln/tempering oven stack. It’s tempting. My wife doesn’t like me tempering in “her” oven and it doesn’t do the best job of holding a consistent temp anyway so that’s why I’m looking at tempering options as well. I currently use a toaster oven but I can’t fit anything very large in there.

I’m not concerned about the lead time of whatever I get. My current kiln works fine it’s just too small and 120V so it takes a while to heat up. Plus I’m borrowing it from my dad and want to give it back to him.
 
Personally when I upgrade my kiln I’ll be selecting hot shot kilns.

They’re ready to ship not build to order like evenheat kilns.

The ramp up time to 2200F is super fast I think the 18 inch deep model can do it in about 25 min.

This tells me that they have far better insulation and heat retention than evenheat.

The exterior stays cool to the touch.
 
Exterior heat will be a big decider whenever I have to buy a new kiln.
However, I will also seriously look at a vertical kiln.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Exterior heat will be a big decider whenever I have to buy a new kiln.
However, I will also seriously look at a vertical kiln.
Click to expand...
I’ve been eying some vertical kilns too. I could certainly get a larger kiln with a smaller footprint. I’m a little bit concerned about exterior heat but mainly from an efficiency standpoint. I plan to put whatever I get on a rolling stand and do my heat treating outside so it won’t be heating up my shop anyway. Since I’m currently only doing stock removal I normally get several blanks ready and commit entire weeks/weekends to heat treating. I only heat treated 2-3 times last year and still don’t have all of those blanks finished.
 
My current oven gets really hot on the outside. It will burn you if you touch it when doing stainless. I have an insulating blanket around it, but IMHO, it should not get that hot.
A big vertical would do swords nicely. The Paragon KM25 vertical would do most short swords and all knives. I like the double top.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
My current oven gets really hot on the outside. It will burn you if you touch it when doing stainless. I have an insulating blanket around it, but IMHO, it should not get that hot.
A big vertical would do swords nicely. The Paragon KM25 vertical would do most short swords and all knives. I like the double top.
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I’ve been looking at that Paragon pretty hard. It’s a strong contender. I’ve been telling myself I should “go big” in case I ever want to do swords but, I’ve just never been very interested in them. I’m in my mid 40’s now so I doubt I’ll grow into them but who knows. If I get a smaller one now I would have a valid excuse to buy a larger one later. We might be on to something here….
 
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Could have used a vertical oevn today. This is a piece of W2 going through a Normalizing cycle.In my LB2720250202_101453.jpg
 
Thescrawnylumberjack said:
The ramp up time to 2200F is super fast I think the 18 inch deep model can do it in about 25 min.

This tells me that they have far better insulation and heat retention than evenheat.
Click to expand...
Doesn’t that mean the opposite?
 
find it hard to believe any kiln can ramp to 2200f in 25 min (knife maker grade). had a KO 18.5 upgraded to a LB 22 was just fine with the setpro as i only really need 3 base HT programs. i keep the 4th for full custom program
 
Larrin said:
Doesn’t that mean the opposite?
Click to expand...
If an Evenheat kiln takes 45min 220v to get to 2200 and a hotshot kiln 220V takes 25 min wouldn’t that mean that there’s better insulation in the hotshot kiln?

Am I thinking about it wrong?

I suppose it could have more elements or longer elements but I think they draw a similar amount of power.

butcher_block said:
find it hard to believe any kiln can ramp to 2200f in 25 min (knife maker grade). had a KO 18.5 upgraded to a LB 22 was just fine with the setpro as i only really need 3 base HT programs. i keep the 4th for full custom program
Click to expand...

From what I’ve seen from other makers who have them it’s very fast.
 
Thescrawnylumberjack said:
If an Evenheat kiln takes 45min 220v to get to 2200 and a hotshot kiln 220V takes 25 min wouldn’t that mean that there’s better insulation in the hotshot kiln?

Am I thinking about it wrong?

I suppose it could have more elements or longer elements but I think they draw a similar amount of power.



From what I’ve seen from other makers who have them it’s very fast.
Click to expand...
As an example, fiber kilns heat and cool more rapidly but they are worse at temperature distribution and maintaining their heat when compared with brick construction: https://kilnfrog.com/pages/fiber-vs...KGjAlT-TPIk92o2Dxls9-dfayKuAmHV-pLyLfjRdjL0FV

Hot shot says they use "high density fiber" which probably explains the high speed: https://www.hotshotovens.com/collections/knife-metallurgy-ovens/products/hs-24k-24-deep-knife-oven
 
Larrin said:
As an example, fiber kilns heat and cool more rapidly but they are worse at temperature distribution and maintaining their heat when compared with brick construction: https://kilnfrog.com/pages/fiber-vs...KGjAlT-TPIk92o2Dxls9-dfayKuAmHV-pLyLfjRdjL0FV

Hot shot says they use "high density fiber" which probably explains the high speed: https://www.hotshotovens.com/collections/knife-metallurgy-ovens/products/hs-24k-24-deep-knife-oven
Click to expand...
Interesting thank you for the clarification
 
Larrin said:
As an example, fiber kilns heat and cool more rapidly but they are worse at temperature distribution and maintaining their heat when compared with brick construction: https://kilnfrog.com/pages/fiber-vs...KGjAlT-TPIk92o2Dxls9-dfayKuAmHV-pLyLfjRdjL0FV

Hot shot says they use "high density fiber" which probably explains the high speed: https://www.hotshotovens.com/collections/knife-metallurgy-ovens/products/hs-24k-24-deep-knife-oven
Click to expand...
I know with your place in the industry you might not want to suggest a brand but what features do you think are most important? Is there anything you’d avoid? I know none of them will approach a lab grade machine but I want to buy a decent kiln. Also outside of potential warping issues would a vertical kiln offer any advantages over a horizontal as it pertains to heat treat? I could see temp distribution being a little better around the blank. I don’t want to go the salt bath route. It sounds like it can be a bit hazardous.
 
ScarFoot said:
I know with your place in the industry you might not want to suggest a brand but what features do you think are most important? Is there anything you’d avoid? I know none of them will approach a lab grade machine but I want to buy a decent kiln. Also outside of potential warping issues would a vertical kiln offer any advantages over a horizontal as it pertains to heat treat? I could see temp distribution being a little better around the blank. I don’t want to go the salt bath route. It sounds like it can be a bit hazardous.
Click to expand...
I use an EvenHeat high temp model and I like it a lot. I also have the new tempering furnace and it also works well. I also had the LB which was good but I wanted the high temp model. I can’t say much about other furnaces I haven’t used.
 
Larrin said:
I use an EvenHeat high temp model and I like it a lot. I also have the new tempering furnace and it also works well. I also had the LB which was good but I wanted the high temp model. I can’t say much about other furnaces I haven’t used.
Click to expand...
Are they fairly accurate with respect to the set/display temp and do they hold their temps consistently? My current oven is generally 20-30 degF off of the set temp (if I want it at 1465 I have to set it at like 1445) but will hold the temp within about 3 or 4 degF once it gets there. I use a separate thermocouple to watch the temp. Not sure if there’s a way to calibrate the one on the kiln.
 
Larrin said:
As an example, fiber kilns heat and cool more rapidly but they are worse at temperature distribution and maintaining their heat when compared with brick construction: https://kilnfrog.com/pages/fiber-vs...KGjAlT-TPIk92o2Dxls9-dfayKuAmHV-pLyLfjRdjL0FV

Hot shot says they use "high density fiber" which probably explains the high speed: https://www.hotshotovens.com/collections/knife-metallurgy-ovens/products/hs-24k-24-deep-knife-oven
Click to expand...
Would you say that there would be a measurable difference in steel properties with knives heat treated in a fiber kiln vs brick kiln?
 
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