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pertaining to knife handle slabs... If one side is g-10 and the other Ti (many popular folders) same thickness, which side is stronger?
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which is stronger.. g-10 or titanium
- Thread starter love4steel
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My guess would be Titanium
DavidZ
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That would depend on you definition of stronger. Tensile, Yield, per weight, etc. ??? Both materials are more than suitable for the purpose of handle slabs. They both have more "strength" than is required.
From my view, I would vote for the metal of the Titans --- Titanium!
From my view, I would vote for the metal of the Titans --- Titanium!
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How could G-10 possibly be stronger than Titanium? They don't even have similar characteristics.
WORD!:thumbup:
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care to elaborate?
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Howdy,
G10, being a fiber reinforced epoxy composite, has different properties in different directions. It is the fibers that carry the load, so if you pulling in the same direction as the fibers, you get MUCH higher properties than if you are pulling at 90° away from the direction of the fibers (we call that the fiber plane because the fibers are a woven cloth and that forms an x-y coordinate plane. So if you go in the z axis, above that plane, you don't have any fibers taking the stress.)
So if you measured the tensile strength in the direction of the fibers, the number is pretty close to that of Titanium. But if you measured at right angles, the tensile strenth is only that of unreinforced epoxy resin. A number I don't have off hand, but it's pretty close to zippity doo-dah. That's why designing with composites is so much more complex than designing with metal. The strength is directional.
As DavidZ said, both are suitable for making a knife handle.
G10, being a fiber reinforced epoxy composite, has different properties in different directions. It is the fibers that carry the load, so if you pulling in the same direction as the fibers, you get MUCH higher properties than if you are pulling at 90° away from the direction of the fibers (we call that the fiber plane because the fibers are a woven cloth and that forms an x-y coordinate plane. So if you go in the z axis, above that plane, you don't have any fibers taking the stress.)
So if you measured the tensile strength in the direction of the fibers, the number is pretty close to that of Titanium. But if you measured at right angles, the tensile strenth is only that of unreinforced epoxy resin. A number I don't have off hand, but it's pretty close to zippity doo-dah. That's why designing with composites is so much more complex than designing with metal. The strength is directional.
As DavidZ said, both are suitable for making a knife handle.
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nice... that answer helped satisfy my curiosity and it makes sense. thanks narfeng:thumbup:
Or it might just be cheaper to build a jet out of carbon fiber than titanium....who knows???
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Take a 1/8" thick piece of G10 and a 1/8" thick piece of titanium, bend them to 90 degrees. The G10 will break first.
G10 is strong for it's weight (stronger than micarta), but it isn't as strong as titanium.
G10 is strong for it's weight (stronger than micarta), but it isn't as strong as titanium.
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Assuming that the two handles in question are IDENTICALLY constructed... dual titanium slabs would be stronger. You plan on hammering that seb through a tree? 
I prefer the lightness of g10, and the warmer feel. Use either knife as a cutting tool, and they'll both suit you well. It's all about preference. Enjoy your sebenza, and I recommend you at least pick up an SnG on the cheap, play with it for a few days, and let it go if you don't like it! I really like the CC version a lot!
FWIW... if you DID try to hammer the two knives in question through a tree, BOTH would suffer unusable damage, and only one of the makers would fix/replace it for free! ...or were you planning to be stranded on a desert island in the future?
I prefer the lightness of g10, and the warmer feel. Use either knife as a cutting tool, and they'll both suit you well. It's all about preference. Enjoy your sebenza, and I recommend you at least pick up an SnG on the cheap, play with it for a few days, and let it go if you don't like it! I really like the CC version a lot! FWIW... if you DID try to hammer the two knives in question through a tree, BOTH would suffer unusable damage, and only one of the makers would fix/replace it for free! ...or were you planning to be stranded on a desert island in the future?
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Here's the numbers. 6-4 Annealed Ti vs G-10 Laminate Sheet (www.matweb.com)
_______________________________Ti_________G10
Tensile strength (MPa)___________830_______262-310
Compressive Strength___________860_________448
Rockwell Hardness______________36C_________110M
Impact strength is harder to compare, since metals and composites are tested differently. If anyone wants to try sorting out the comparison, G10 is about 6-7 J/cm (Izod) and 6-4 Ti is 17 J (Charpy). Given the high elongation at failure of the titanium (10%), I doubt it's going to fracture under real-world knife using conditions.
_______________________________Ti_________G10
Tensile strength (MPa)___________830_______262-310
Compressive Strength___________860_________448
Rockwell Hardness______________36C_________110M
Impact strength is harder to compare, since metals and composites are tested differently. If anyone wants to try sorting out the comparison, G10 is about 6-7 J/cm (Izod) and 6-4 Ti is 17 J (Charpy). Given the high elongation at failure of the titanium (10%), I doubt it's going to fracture under real-world knife using conditions.
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Combat jet aircraft frames are constructed of Titanium, while there maybe some carbon fiber on the aircaft itself, the air frame is titanium. Same goes for submarines and the catapult launch on an aircraft carrier, while there may be some carbon fiber in the overall package the frame and other parts under heavy load and strees are tianium.
The aerospace industry is the single largest market for titanium products primarily due to the exceptional strength to weight ratio, elevated temperature performance and corrosion resistance. Titanium applications are most significant in jet engine and airframe components that are subject to temperatures up to 1100° F and for other critical structural parts. Usage is widespread in most commercial and military aircraft. Titanium is also used in spacecraft where the many benefits of titanium are effectively utilized.
As new titanium products, alloys and manufacturing methods are employed by the aircraft industry, the use of titanium will expand. Today the use of precision castings and new alloys such as and Ti-3AL8V-6Cr-4Zr-4Mo are making it possible for titanium to displace alternate, less efficient structural materials in a wide spectrum of aerospace applications.
Lockheed engineers stated that while only titanium and steel had the ability to withstand the operating temperatures encountered, aged Ti-13V-11 Cr-3AL titanium weighed one-half as much as stainless steel per cubic inch and its ultimate strength was about equal to stainless. Using "conventional" fabrication techniques, fewer parts were needed with Ti-13V-11 Cr-3AL than with steel.
Engines: The largest single use of titanium is in the aircraft gas turbine engine. In most modern jet engines, titanium-based alloy parts make up 20% to 30% of the dry weight, primarily in the compressor. Applications include blades, discs or hubs, inlet guide vanes and cases. Titanium is most commonly the material of choice for engine parts that operate up to 1100°F (593°C.).
Airframes: Titanium alloys effectively compete with aluminum, nickel and ferrous alloys in both commercial and military airframes.
Applications run the gamut of airframe structural members; from massive, highly stressed, forged wing structures, and landing gear components, to small critical fasteners, springs, and hydraulic tubing.
Selection of titanium in both airframes and engines is based upon titanium's basic attributes; weight reduction due to high strength to weight ratios coupled with exemplary reliability in service, attributable to outstanding corrosion resistance compared to alternate structural metals.
F-22 Raptor
Space structures starting with the extensive use of titanium in the early Mercury and Apollo space craft, titanium alloys continue to be widely used in military and NASA space applications. In addition to manned space craft, titanium alloys are extensively employed in solid rocket booster cases, guidance control pressure vessels and a wide variety of applications demanding light weight and reliability.
Thick Section Titanium or Heavy Section size is generally defined as forged or rolled thickness that exceeds four inches. Titanium alloys have been successfully used for heavy sections thickness, in both airframe parts, and in rotating components such as heavy section fan disks for PWA and G.E. high bypass jet engines, and Sikorsky helicopter rotor forgings.
The primary alloys that have been involved are Ti-6AL-4V, in the annealed or STOA (Solution Treated and Overaged) condition; the near-beta Ti-17 (Ti-5AL2Sn-2Zr-4Mo-4Cr), Ti-10V-2Fe-3AL and the Ti-6AL-2Sn-4Zr-6Mo compositions in the STA (Solution Treated Aged) condition; and the beta alloys Ti-13V-11 Cr-3AL and Ti-3AL-8V-6Cr-4Mo-4Zr, also in the STA condition. Certainly the most extensive heavy section applications in one project to date featured the Ti-1 3V-11 Cr3AL alloy in the SR-71 Blackbird (fuselage frames, wing beams and landing gears).
For a given process and heat treatment condition, titanium alloys such as these demonstrate superior fatigue and fracture toughness properties, not only in the absolute sense, but also from the standpoint of uniformity throughout the heavy section thickness, and as the section thickness increases from 4" to 6", or even to 8". Titanium alloys offer a useful and, in many cases, superior alternative to steel alloys for heavy section application.
I don't think they use G10 for machines which are expectd to operate at 1100 degree F, or for high stress structural compents on military aircraft, commerical aircraft and or space craft.
The aerospace industry is the single largest market for titanium products primarily due to the exceptional strength to weight ratio, elevated temperature performance and corrosion resistance. Titanium applications are most significant in jet engine and airframe components that are subject to temperatures up to 1100° F and for other critical structural parts. Usage is widespread in most commercial and military aircraft. Titanium is also used in spacecraft where the many benefits of titanium are effectively utilized.
As new titanium products, alloys and manufacturing methods are employed by the aircraft industry, the use of titanium will expand. Today the use of precision castings and new alloys such as and Ti-3AL8V-6Cr-4Zr-4Mo are making it possible for titanium to displace alternate, less efficient structural materials in a wide spectrum of aerospace applications.
Lockheed engineers stated that while only titanium and steel had the ability to withstand the operating temperatures encountered, aged Ti-13V-11 Cr-3AL titanium weighed one-half as much as stainless steel per cubic inch and its ultimate strength was about equal to stainless. Using "conventional" fabrication techniques, fewer parts were needed with Ti-13V-11 Cr-3AL than with steel.
Engines: The largest single use of titanium is in the aircraft gas turbine engine. In most modern jet engines, titanium-based alloy parts make up 20% to 30% of the dry weight, primarily in the compressor. Applications include blades, discs or hubs, inlet guide vanes and cases. Titanium is most commonly the material of choice for engine parts that operate up to 1100°F (593°C.).
Airframes: Titanium alloys effectively compete with aluminum, nickel and ferrous alloys in both commercial and military airframes.
Applications run the gamut of airframe structural members; from massive, highly stressed, forged wing structures, and landing gear components, to small critical fasteners, springs, and hydraulic tubing.
Selection of titanium in both airframes and engines is based upon titanium's basic attributes; weight reduction due to high strength to weight ratios coupled with exemplary reliability in service, attributable to outstanding corrosion resistance compared to alternate structural metals.
F-22 Raptor
Space structures starting with the extensive use of titanium in the early Mercury and Apollo space craft, titanium alloys continue to be widely used in military and NASA space applications. In addition to manned space craft, titanium alloys are extensively employed in solid rocket booster cases, guidance control pressure vessels and a wide variety of applications demanding light weight and reliability.
Thick Section Titanium or Heavy Section size is generally defined as forged or rolled thickness that exceeds four inches. Titanium alloys have been successfully used for heavy sections thickness, in both airframe parts, and in rotating components such as heavy section fan disks for PWA and G.E. high bypass jet engines, and Sikorsky helicopter rotor forgings.
The primary alloys that have been involved are Ti-6AL-4V, in the annealed or STOA (Solution Treated and Overaged) condition; the near-beta Ti-17 (Ti-5AL2Sn-2Zr-4Mo-4Cr), Ti-10V-2Fe-3AL and the Ti-6AL-2Sn-4Zr-6Mo compositions in the STA (Solution Treated Aged) condition; and the beta alloys Ti-13V-11 Cr-3AL and Ti-3AL-8V-6Cr-4Mo-4Zr, also in the STA condition. Certainly the most extensive heavy section applications in one project to date featured the Ti-1 3V-11 Cr3AL alloy in the SR-71 Blackbird (fuselage frames, wing beams and landing gears).
For a given process and heat treatment condition, titanium alloys such as these demonstrate superior fatigue and fracture toughness properties, not only in the absolute sense, but also from the standpoint of uniformity throughout the heavy section thickness, and as the section thickness increases from 4" to 6", or even to 8". Titanium alloys offer a useful and, in many cases, superior alternative to steel alloys for heavy section application.
I don't think they use G10 for machines which are expectd to operate at 1100 degree F, or for high stress structural compents on military aircraft, commerical aircraft and or space craft.
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