Which stainlessteel can withstand batoning ?

T

Tamernator

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First of all sorry for my bad English, but i hope you will understand what i mean. Im looking for a knife made of stainlessteel for bushcraft which i can abuse hard in woodwork (batoning ,chopping etc). So which steel should i choose ? People say that stainlessteel is not good for chopping and batoning but i saw several bushcraft knives made of Sandvic and n690. What is strange that i never saw bushcraft knife in 440c . I found info that 440c chips when batoning but it has more carbon than Sendvic steel so why 440c does chip easily and Sendvic does not ? Maybe when stainlessteel knife has certain thickness its less likely to chip ? My logic says that if cutting edge chips then thickness of knife won't help.
I found a knife from Boker in 440c with 5mm thickness, is it enought for batoning without chipping ? I also do not udnerstand, if stainlessteels are soft steels why do they chip.

Will appreciate any help, thank you.

BTW i know that it depends on heat treat and not only on steel type but right now im asking about steels (assume that every of those steels i mentioned are heat treated the best it can for batoning)
 
I regularly baton with knives made from 420HC (Buck) and Sandvik 12C27 (Mora).

IME, fine grained stainless does just fine for this, assuming a) good heat treat, b) good knife design, and c) the user knows when to back off when dealing with tight grains and knots.
 
440C at 58-60 HRC is not that soft. Mostly the problem comes from the geometry of the edge if it's a blade for rough battening a thicker convex blade will be able to withstand much more stress than a flat grind for example.
 
Tamernator said:
Are Boker 440c with 5mm thickness enought for batoning ? Also why does 440c chip if it is supposed to be soft steel ?
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It's not so much the grain as it is the carbide.
440c has a larger volume of blocky chromium carbides. It not designed to be super tough it's designed to have the best wear resistance out of the 440 series.

Larger carbides at high volume decreases tougheness.

Also, a piece of 440c costs more the D2
So it's not a cheap steel.



It used to be the top performance stainless for it's time, It's great for a hunting knife because the blocky carbides work great with low grit edges on animal hide and fish scales but the edge stability and toughness leave more to be desired for other applications.

440c is not my first choice for anything really, it's 2018 and we have much better steels available.

So while 440C would not be my first choice for your application, I'm not sure you have a choice. If you did, sounds like 3v would be your favorite.

The most popular sandvik steels have lower alloy, this is by design to avoid the large blocky primary carbides like in 440c. They won't be as resistant to wear but are tougher and more stable.

So technically, yes the sandvik steel is better for batoning. However batoning relys more on geometry, how you're doing it and what you're doing it too.

Just thicken your edge to 25° per side. Be careful not to let the edge make contact with the ground. Don't baton stuff that not even a splitting maul can't split and you'll be fine.
 
pinnah said:
I regularly baton with knives made from 420HC (Buck) and Sandvik 12C27 (Mora).

IME, fine grained stainless does just fine for this, assuming a) good heat treat, b) good knife design, and c) the user knows when to back off when dealing with tight grains and knots.
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Backing off is a very important point and it avoids most of the user errors. I tend to stay with carbon steel for my batoning. I think any good stainless steel will be okay as long as you have a feel for it's limits and don't beat the knife to death.

Yes, death by batoning....
 
DeadboxHero said:
It's not so much the grain as it is the carbide.
440c has a larger volume of blocky chromium carbides. It not designed to be super tough it's designed to have the best wear resistance out of the 440 series.

Larger carbides at high volume decreases tougheness.

It used to be the top performance stainless for it's time, It's great for a hunting knife because the blocky carbides work great with low grit edges on animal hide and fish scales but the edge stability and toughness leave more to be desired for other applications.
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But this steel chart shows that 440c toughness is not bad and is on par with 14c28n Sendvik.
Steel-charts-toughness.jpg

DeadboxHero said:
So while 440C would not be my first choice for your application, I'm not sure you have a choice. If you did, sounds like 3v would be your favorite.
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The problem with 3V is that its not stainless if im not wrong ? If im wrong and it is stainless how would you compare its stainlessness to D2 , more stainless than D2 or less ?
 
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Checkout some Elmax torture test videos, they’re pretty impressive. And as always, heat treatment and edge geometry are key factors.
 
Nice, do you know where the information is that they used to make that chart? Is there a test associated with it?

3v is not stainless but it's not as reactive as 1095 so you'd be surprised.

At the end of the day man, plenty of dudes use 440c and no one died.

Just beef up the edge and be mindful of why that edge makes contact with and you'll be fine man.



Tamernator said:
But this steel chart shows that 440c toughness is not bad and is on pair with 14c28n Sendvik.
Steel-charts-toughness.jpg


The problem with 3V is that its not stainless if im not wrong ? If im wrong and it is stainless how would you compare its stainless to D2 , more stainless than D2 or less ?
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Spikediesel said:
Checkout some Elmax torture test videos, they’re pretty impressive. And as always, heat treatment and edge geometry are key factors.
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Thank you for advice but if im not wrong Elmax is harder to sharpen in the field right ? I need steel that is not too hard to sharpen in the field. Thank you everyone for information and help.
 
DeadboxHero said:
Nice, do you know where the information is that they used to make that chart? Is there a test associated with it?

3v is not stainless but it's not as reactive as 1095 so you'd be surprised.

At the end of the day man, plenty of dudes use 440c and no one died.

Just beef up the edge and be mindful of why that edge makes contact with and you'll be fine man.
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I found that picture in the net, from some steels guide, it can be wrong dunno. Is 3V less reactive than D2 or more ? I just wanna compare to something i alredy owned and know, so i can assume its stainlessness
 
In the end what would you guys recomend, aside of geometry ,440c knife or 14c28n knife, both from Bohler.
 
Tamernator said:
Thank you for advice but if im not wrong Elmax is harder to sharpen in the field right ? I need steel that is not too hard to sharpen in the field. Thank you everyone for information and help.
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Elmax is pretty easy to sharpen in the field given the proper tool. A Fallkniven DC4 makes short work of it.
 
By the way maybe AUS8 steel would be better choice for batoning ? I mean if knife is thick enought and geometry is okey for that.
 
Tamernator said:
If Elmax is good for batoning then M390 should be too right ? Since they are very alike.
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They are very similar. The heat treat is key here because different attributes are going to be better at a certain HRC. I believe @Twindog can add some Elmax knowledge here as I have seen him post some charts explaining this better than I. Personally I would buy a knife that was built for the specific task that you want to use it for. A reputable knife maker is going to make sure the proper steel and heat treat are used to achieve optimal results. There are many makers on Bladeforums that can produce that for you as well.
 
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