Who Will Die First when SHTF

nothing a fellow would not already know, if he had stopped for 30 seconds to think about it.
Basically, those first out will be those that are not self sufficient, require medication, or are grossly obese.
 
She is clearly a "get out of Dodge" SHTF person based on her comments about the Yuppie group. I have to dissagree about this group. It all depends on the "fan" scenario that might play out. In most cases, it is better to stay home where your food and supplies are and no bank is going to be coming to repo your home in a worst case scenario. I also don't believe you need to train a lot with firearms to be moderately effective in their use. You aren't going to be taking 300 yd shots with a rifle. If it is needed, we're in BIG trouble as a country. The will to pull the trigger is another issue. Most civilians will never know that answer until faced with the decision.

Sure having the skill to build a improvised shelter may be useful. I'm sure there are important considerations on the how, where, and why to build a shelter. But I would prefer to use a house that is already built.
 
22-rimfire said:
he is clearly a "get out of Dodge" SHTF person based on her comments about the Yuppie group. I have to dissagree about this group. It all depends on the "fan" scenario that might play out. In most cases, it is better to stay home where your food and supplies are and no bank is going to be coming to repo your home in a worst case scenario. I also don't believe you need to train a lot with firearms to be moderately effective in their use. You aren't going to be taking 300 yd shots with a rifle. If it is needed, we're in BIG trouble as a country. The will to pull the trigger is another issue. Most civilians will never know that answer until faced with the decision.

Sure having the skill to build a improvised shelter may be useful. I'm sure there are important considerations on the how, where, and why to build a shelter. But I would prefer to use a house that is already built.
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Don't get locked in the one plan, one scenario loop. Both buggin out and digging in can be a reasonabe option.
In a natural disaster situation reposession is the least of your worries, but if the problem is of a financial matter you bet your ass the banks will be coming after "their property".

Another thing that can influence staying or leaving depends on where you live. For example South West is pretty much dead whitout the constant stream of water that is pumped in. Sure you may already have a house, but you won't have water and you will die.
 
22-rimfire said:
.... The will to pull the trigger is another issue. Most civilians will never know that answer until faced with the decision.

....
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To be fair, according to John Keegan's Face of Battle, only about 10% of the military population is effective at pulling the trigger; and, that is something that seems to hold true for all cultures, for most of recorded history.

It's a good read:
http://www.amazon.com/Face-Battle-Study-Agincourt-Waterloo/dp/0140048979/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b


n2s
 
That was a good video, I think she is by and large correct, generalities are just that though, she has her mindset in the right place. If I were to add something to her thoughts that is missing in my opinion its the techie subset, those who have built their skills and in turn their careers and lifestyles on computers. It's one thing to talk on a good game behind the screen but, come a disaster the first thing gone is power, and those pasty lovers of clicking buttons, are going to be out of breathe quite soon. Then applying the binary, everything is black and white thought process of always being right given to those types, working together would be tedious and just a matter of time before their number is up. Just my opinion.

I like her mentality, but after watching some of her vids that bunker up, hunker down thought process has it's disadvantages as well.

Something for those who like to read about this type of stuff:

http://www.amazon.com/Patriots-Surviving-James-Wesley-Rawles/dp/156975599X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1288536597&sr=1-1
 
I can agree with that. Whether you hunker down or split out, that's an situational decision. Me personally, I don't like mass groups of people. That's my biggest fear in SHTF. Mobs of starving, dehydrated folks, intent on taking what you have. If you bunker up with supplies, there is a possibility you will be besieged by those that want what you have. My first thought is to get away from people who don't share my mindset and skills. Saying that you can fend off those that want to take your stuff, is a pretty bold statement, those that have been to Africa and Somalia and seen a mob of 1000 people intent on destruction and harm, know that a an AR and 1000rds aren't going to get you through it. Unless you built your house to bunker specs, or you have a bunker, more than likely, you won't be able to keep people out of your house.

I have friends and family that think as I think and we have setup and E&E plan that involves rally points, equipment stocks and getting to the high ground where we can hunt, live, and keep an eye out for trouble. 20-30 people (mostly former military combat units) working as a community, will get farther along than 1 4 person family, hiding in their home, trying to keep people out.

These are my opinions and beliefs. Alot of what we have planned is based on my region. My suggestion, have a plan, and think about your supplies. The lady in the video is against looting, but, in this type of scenario, I don't consider it looting, I consider it supply requisition. I'm not taking flat panels, I'm getting antibiotics, bandages, ammo, and the other stuff that my group will need.

Just my observations. Moose
 
I plan for both.

Here is the problem and I am speaking to those who live in the USA, although it also probably applies to our Forum brothers outside the country.

In a huge crisis, the quality of the people in the country will make the difference. We at our roots use to be a self sacrificing Country for our fellow Americans. I do not know if we can still say that. I hope we still can.

If there is a mass problem, our attitude to work together will determine the outcome. If we do not work together, even those that do survive we wake up to an America that has totally changed. Our Constitution will be thrown out and we will end up with a completely different Government.

Also, what better time for our enemies to attack us while we are down. The possibilities are endless. We need to work together.

I plan for both because I have to take care of my family. The Bug-out scenario is the last thing I would want to do because society would have had to totally melt down for me to do so. I would encourage everyone to stay bugged-in as long as possible and become a leader to give us a chance to keep this great country.

Geoff
 
moosez45 said:
I can agree with that. Whether you hunker down or split out, that's an situational decision. Me personally, I don't like mass groups of people. That's my biggest fear in SHTF. Mobs of starving, dehydrated folks, intent on taking what you have. If you bunker up with supplies, there is a possibility you will be besieged by those that want what you have. My first thought is to get away from people who don't share my mindset and skills. Saying that you can fend off those that want to take your stuff, is a pretty bold statement, those that have been to Africa and Somalia and seen a mob of 1000 people intent on destruction and harm, know that a an AR and 1000rds aren't going to get you through it. Unless you built your house to bunker specs, or you have a bunker, more than likely, you won't be able to keep people out of your house.

I have friends and family that think as I think and we have setup and E&E plan that involves rally points, equipment stocks and getting to the high ground where we can hunt, live, and keep an eye out for trouble. 20-30 people (mostly former military combat units) working as a community, will get farther along than 1 4 person family, hiding in their home, trying to keep people out.

These are my opinions and beliefs. Alot of what we have planned is based on my region. My suggestion, have a plan, and think about your supplies. The lady in the video is against looting, but, in this type of scenario, I don't consider it looting, I consider it supply requisition. I'm not taking flat panels, I'm getting antibiotics, bandages, ammo, and the other stuff that my group will need.

Just my observations. Moose
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I'll go that one better. I do not believe in survival, I believe in civilization. When the SHTF, and the authorities collapse as a result, then it is time to immediately start to rebuild your community. Perhaps you can hide out on a remote farm for a week or two; but, that is unrealistic for urban dwellers, and so is the idea that you can simply hit the road and run for it.

A more practical solution is to get to work repairing the damage, clearing routes, policing the trash, burying the dead, patching up the wounded, and re-establishing basic infrastructure. As for the druggies and other predators, the police are not going to be there to protect us and perhaps more importantly they are not going to be around to protect them from the consequences of their behavior either.

The most important single tool in your arsenal is your initiative. You have to get things going in some positive direction before you are overwhelmed by mass panic. It has to be clear that, although things are bad, it will be getting better, and is more productive to work towards that end then to do nothing, or to waste your energies running around fruitlessly.

n2s
 
That you very much for sharing. :thumbup: I think I'll listen to more of her vids.

Simple and straightforward sharing of know-how with a med background to boot.
 
given the way the past few disasters have gone, it seems like your best bet is to already be gone, or to help your community rebuild. Just so long as the JBTs stay away and let people rebuild, instead of herding them away for their "protection"
 
I'm thinking , if you get advanced warning , you might have time to prep to bug-out. Thing is , if you have intel , others will too , so the situation remains the same. The masses that will be leaving major centres will clog all egress. This may force you to stay at home. This all depends on the disaster scenario. This will determine if you need to leave or stay. I think it's imperative to stockpile a certain amount of supplies ( 3-6 months) and have a way of defending you and your loved ones if you stay or leave. Leaving you're house , you will probably be in a harsher situation , as you will have limited supplies and fuel. This may be your only option if staying in a city turns more dangerous . If you can rendevous with a group , that would be the best but not a lot of us can get together with like-minded ,prepared and armed allies. Most people will be on their own or in family groups. If it truly is Teotwawki , I think I would stay , as I'm doomed anyways no matter where I go. Although I'd rather make my peace with my HP in the bush. It all depends on what type of Sh;t is hitting the fan that determines my response to it,Imo.
 
Funny thing about this thread popping up is that my wife and I were discussing what we would do and where we would meet if communications went down and there was some type of disaster. This of course was brought up by my wife (so proud :)) after we watched The Crazies on demand.

We agreed that her family's ranch would be best as it has a water well and generators if need be. Plenty of guns and ammo to boot. Not to mention I'm a Sheriff's Deputy in the same county as her family lives in so I will be armed to the teeth too :D

I would more than likely be called to service if some type of disaster occurred, but my own family's safety would be above all else.
 
I would stay at home as well, and aid and assist in my community. I think the attempting to restore order with service would be doing the right thing. Anarchy would be met with bullets. I do not think pulling the trigger is an issue for me. If I felt threatened, and a gun pointed at someone telling them to back off did not do the trick, I would shoot. That was their choice not mine. First and foremost, being there to serve others to provide comfort will be the cure for a huge SHTF scenario. My faith always keeps me calm in tense situations, without fear of death. We are all going to die, so why fear it?
 
moosez45 said:
I can agree with that. Whether you hunker down or split out, that's an situational decision. Me personally, I don't like mass groups of people. That's my biggest fear in SHTF. Mobs of starving, dehydrated folks, intent on taking what you have. If you bunker up with supplies, there is a possibility you will be besieged by those that want what you have. My first thought is to get away from people who don't share my mindset and skills. Saying that you can fend off those that want to take your stuff, is a pretty bold statement, those that have been to Africa and Somalia and seen a mob of 1000 people intent on destruction and harm, know that a an AR and 1000rds aren't going to get you through it. Unless you built your house to bunker specs, or you have a bunker, more than likely, you won't be able to keep people out of your house.

I have friends and family that think as I think and we have setup and E&E plan that involves rally points, equipment stocks and getting to the high ground where we can hunt, live, and keep an eye out for trouble. 20-30 people (mostly former military combat units) working as a community, will get farther along than 1 4 person family, hiding in their home, trying to keep people out.

These are my opinions and beliefs. Alot of what we have planned is based on my region. My suggestion, have a plan, and think about your supplies. The lady in the video is against looting, but, in this type of scenario, I don't consider it looting, I consider it supply requisition. I'm not taking flat panels, I'm getting antibiotics, bandages, ammo, and the other stuff that my group will need.

Just my observations. Moose
Click to expand...

not2sharp said:
I'll go that one better. I do not believe in survival, I believe in civilization. When the SHTF, and the authorities collapse as a result, then it is time to immediately start to rebuild your community. Perhaps you can hide out on a remote farm for a week or two; but, that is unrealistic for urban dwellers, and so is the idea that you can simply hit the road and run for it.

A more practical solution is to get to work repairing the damage, clearing routes, policing the trash, burying the dead, patching up the wounded, and re-establishing basic infrastructure. As for the druggies and other predators, the police are not going to be there to protect us and perhaps more importantly they are not going to be around to protect them from the consequences of their behavior either.

The most important single tool in your arsenal is your initiative. You have to get things going in some positive direction before you are overwhelmed by mass panic. It has to be clear that, although things are bad, it will be getting better, and is more productive to work towards that end then to do nothing, or to waste your energies running around fruitlessly.

n2s
Click to expand...

I agree with both Moose and n2s - two very well thought out and well worded responses. I think it's entertaining to think about what I would do in an I Am Legend, Omega Man, or Red Dawn type scenario, but I agree wholeheartedly with both Moose and n2s when it comes to how I would deal with a more probable SHTF scenario.

I think initially there would be a great deal of chaos, and I agree with what Moose says about mobs of ill prepared and ill intentioned people trying to get what you have. I think this phase of a SHTF scenario definitely requires a focused mindset of "me/us against them." "Us" referring to Moose's plan involving a group of like-minded and well prepared individuals working as a unit against people bent on harming you and taking your things and not wanting to work together.

In an extended SHTF scenario, then I agree with what n2s says regarding the need to rebuild for the advancement of civilization. After things have settled down, it will be necessary for the people to rebuild and move forward. Life goes on and people will need to eat (not MREs) - be sheltered (not in tents and the like) - and they will require on going medical care (not out of the back of an abandoned ambulance). Kids will need schooling and trade and trade routes will need to be established and so on - the infrastructure that n2s speaks of. I think that our success as a whole during this phase of a SHTF scenario will only be possible with more of a community mindset and less of a "me/us against them" mindset.
 
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"My faith always keeps me calm in tense situations, without fear of death. We are all going to die, so why fear it? "

AMEn to that!

Geoff
 
Interesting and thought provoking..
The insulin dependent diabetics and others who are very dependent on medications are really gonna be hurting.

I'm more of a Bug-in guy. We pretty set up already due to multiple power outages each year. I also believe that the govt is ill prepared.

I do think that most will do thier best to help each other, at least in my area.
 
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