Why 154CM

R

Rdmtrip

Joined
Apr 24, 2016
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Does anyone have any insight as to why benchmade continues to use 154 CM as opposed to other steels. Is there an advantage over steels like s35vn? Just curious.
 
154CM is still a high end steel easy enough to sharpen and holds a decent edge, but I agree there are more premium steels that I prefer to work with on my favorite folders and given a choice I choose to buy the upgraded steel. What always surprised me was the cost of Benchmade knives with 154CM vs other manufactures using higher quality steel. It reminds me when I first started collecting Spyderco's VG-10 was everywhere and S30V was just starting to be popular. I imagine there are cost and profit decisions that keep 154CM in the mix and Benchmade does offer some models with S30v, CPM-20cv and m390. Those seem to be competitively priced with other manufactures Premium and Ultra premium steel models. I also see they are offering more base models now with s30v. The average knife user probably does not know the difference and I have to admit I was one of those people until I used more of the premium steels and got a feel for what I like and dislike. It would be interesting to know what percentage of knife buyers in total actually have an opinion of what steel comes with a knife. Most people on this forum and others who collect or enjoy knives like we do know the difference, but are we a large enough market share to force a paradigm shift or are we a small drop in the annual sales bucket or an outlier? Although the voice we have sounds loud in here what are the driving factors in the actual stores for most other buyers? Those buyers are more than likely to shape the decisions made by manufacturers.
 
woodsmanoh said:
154CM is still a high end steel easy enough to sharpen and holds a decent edge, but I agree there are more premium steels that I prefer to work with on my favorite folders and given a choice I choose to buy the upgraded steel. What always surprised me was the cost of Benchmade knives with 154CM vs other manufactures using higher quality steel. It reminds me when I first started collecting Spyderco's VG-10 was everywhere and S30V was just starting to be popular. I imagine there are cost and profit decisions that keep 154CM in the mix and Benchmade does offer some models with S30v, CPM-20cv and m390. Those seem to be competitively priced with other manufactures Premium and Ultra premium steel models. I also see they are offering more base models now with s30v. The average knife user probably does not know the difference and I have to admit I was one of those people until I used more of the premium steels and got a feel for what I like and dislike. It would be interesting to know what percentage of knife buyers in total actually have an opinion of what steel comes with a knife. Most people on this forum and others who collect or enjoy knives like we do know the difference, but are we a large enough market share to force a paradigm shift or are we a small drop in the annual sales bucket or an outlier? Although the voice we have sounds loud in here what are the driving factors in the actual stores for most other buyers? Those buyers are more than likely to shape the decisions made by manufacturers.
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I agree with that 100%. Would be really interesting to see what percentage of buyers we on here make up. The majority of the people I come in contact with have no clue. However, the majority of the people I come in contact with that would pay the price that Benchmade asks for even their cheapest knives do know the difference. I don't see the average knife user dropping $100 plus but it would be interested if there was anyway to find out. I think that we are certainly the vocal minority but I think we make up enough of the market that they do pay attention and adjust accordingly. This is evidenced in the fact that Benchmade and others do make changes and bring about new things that we have obviously been asking for. This also explains why some request such as adding the 940 to the custom builder hasn't happened. Benchmade has deemed for whatever reason that it wouldn't be a good business decision likely because they won't sell enough.
 
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I am a fan of 154cm. It is a great user steel and very easy to maintain. For the average user, edge retention is more than adequate. Benchmade does a great job with all of their heat treats and 154cm is not exception.
 
I agree that 154cm is a fine steel. But I just don't see the value in Benchmade's line up. The Grip is the cheapest but look at the Rift @ $170. Anything with 154cm should be under $150 for sure even with G10 scales.
 
I figure for the price point just as VG-10 is used for Spyderco. The Delica and Grip are less expensive options for average people looking for their first "nice knife" from a big brand, and I'm sure these steels help keep a price point that entice people to get their foot in the door with the brand, possibly selling more expensive options to them in the future.
 
I hope Benchmade continues using 154CM, it's a great compromise between ease of maintenance and good edge-holding capability. Not to mention, if the Griptilian didn't use 154CM, and had something more expensive, I probably wouldn't have been able to afford it. As I do own a Benchmade in 154CM that I really like, as a customer, I will seriously consider buying more Benchmades in the future. I think an "entry-level" model needs to set a very good impression without being too hard on the wallet, and with 154CM, the Griptilian really does. Personally, 154CM is one of my favourites. Just a great all-rounder.
 
154cm is sill a fine knife steel and I find it much easier to get a mirror polished razor edge than several of the newer super steels I own.

I agree from a marketing standpoint 154cm is old news and when you are selling knifes at premium cost you need to offer the latest technology in materials and steels to attract buyers.
 
I guess I am in the minority here ... but personally I'm kind of in the mindset we have sort of come to the point of dimishing returns in knife steels ...

Now I understand there are steels that will hold an edge longer or take being batoned through a car and that new steels can perform certain tasks better then the old carbon steels or 440 stainless steel ...

And I don't have a thing against people wanting knives with the latest and greatest new super steel of the month ...

But that's kind of where I guess I'm odd man out ... I like the old standbye carbon steels ... they perform great and are very easy to sharpen ... and even the upgrades to stainless steels of say VG10 ... S35VN ... AUS8 ... S30V and many others ... I like an edge to hold fairly well and to be strong ...

but I prefer a steel that I can get good performance from ... and still at the end of the day touch up or resharpen without $1000.00 of stones or sharpening systems and not spend 3 hours to get one knife back to the level of sharpness I like to have ...

I think 154CM (or my preference the CMP154) or a good VG10 are great steels and handle anything I need a knife to do.

Just one simple countryboy's opinion ... and I have no problem with those that want to have best they can get ... just saying theres a trade off ... cost ease of sharpening etc ... and I am starting to think many turn their noses up at some great steels ...

Guess this is the part I realize I must he getting old??? :confused:
 
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JJ_Colt45 said:
I guess I am in the minority here ... but personally I'm kind of in the mindset we have sort of come to the point of dimishing returns in knife steels ...

Now I understand there are steels that will hold an edge longer or take being batoned through a car and that new steels can perform certain tasks better then the old carbon steels or 440 stainless steel ...

And I don't have a thing against people wanting knives with the latest and greatest new super steel of the month ...

But that's kind of where I guess I'm odd man out ... I like the old standbye carbon steels ... they perform great and are very easy to sharpen ... and even the upgrades to stainless steels of say VG10 ... S35VN ... AUS8 ... S30V and many others ... I like an edge to hold fairly well and to be strong ...

but I prefer a steel that I can get good performance from ... and still at the end of the day touch up or resharpen without $1000.00 of stones or sharpening systems and not spend 3 hours to get one knife back to the level of sharpness I like to have ...

I think 154CM (or my preference the CMP154) or a good VG10 are great steels and handle anything I need a knife to do.

Just one simple countryboy's opinion ... and I have no problem with those that want to have best they can get ... just saying theres a trade off ... cost ease of sharpening etc ... and I am starting to think many turn their noses up at some great steels ...

Guess this is the part I realize I must he getting old??? :confused:
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I very much agree. Operationally, for my needs, 154cm is about perfect. I like having knives with super steels but really and truly it is an appreciation that is more abstract than tangible. I enjoy knowing a blade I own is m390 for instance but practically speaking my operational needs have never revealed a marked difference. I have never stopped in the middle of using 154cm and wistfully longed for a quality of life greatly improved with a higher end steel. Also getting old.
 
Another thing about 154CM is that it's a very good steel that you can still sharpen on Japanese waterstones and maybe even some natural stones, for me this is a big plus as I really do not enjoy using diamond abrasives at all. For this reason, the closest thing to a "supersteel" I have in my collection is CTS-XHP and I really do enjoy it, but I've been really happy as well with VG-10 and 154CM, and anyway, CTS-XHP has very little Vanadium as well which is why I love it so much.
 
I'd rather have a 154CM blade from Benchmade than any S30V blade for any given knife. It's significantly easier to sharpen and gets "sharper" than my S30V blades when sharpened on my Edge Pro. Essentially, it stays sharp long enough to justify how quickly it can come back from damage. My own experience with Benchmade's S30V is that it will chip under the same loads that a 154CM blade will roll, and it's more of a pain to sharpen.

As for any kind of diminishing returns on upgraded steels, that all depends on what you want out of a steel, and where your definition of "sharp" lies on the spectrum...

Do you want a stainless steel that can hold a working edge forever, but you don't care about being able to split atoms? S110V is top of that heap, but don't expect it to be a cakewalk on the sharpening bench (like JJ_Colt45 JJ_Colt45 mentioned). 154CM is the perfect compromise of edge holding, edge quality, edge stability, and edge maintenance.

I'm lucky enough to have my pick of knives for whatever it is I'm doing, and I always chose which one comes with based on the steel it has. My cardboard knife is a PM2 in S110V. My "impress friends with freaky sharpness" around-town knife is a Ti Monolock in M390 or custom M4 Mini Barrage. If I'm worried about breaking a folder (construction, etc) I bring the Adamas in D2.

BUT,

If I'm on a multi-day camping trip or I know the knife will encounter water/mud/sweat/blood/guts/gray matter, my AFO II in 154CM is, without a doubt, the go-to-hell-and-come-back-with-trophies folder.

...with a Benchmade Field Sharpener in the pack, of course :D
 
Seems to be reasonably tough. Here's one that's had a rough life. Looks like the blade was put to a grinder, and was found in the road on a busy street. No telling how many times it got run over. Still works fine, nothing broke. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

bm-9100found.jpg
 
154CM and S30V are really good steels. Benchmade does a great job with them. That being said, my knives in M390 are even better and hold their edge for a much longer time. I'd gladly pay a premium for that.
 
JJ_Colt45 said:
I guess I am in the minority here ... but personally I'm kind of in the mindset we have sort of come to the point of dimishing returns in knife steels ...

Now I understand there are steels that will hold an edge longer or take being batoned through a car and that new steels can perform certain tasks better then the old carbon steels or 440 stainless steel ...

And I don't have a thing against people wanting knives with the latest and greatest new super steel of the month ...

But that's kind of where I guess I'm odd man out ... I like the old standbye carbon steels ... they perform great and are very easy to sharpen ... and even the upgrades to stainless steels of say VG10 ... S35VN ... AUS8 ... S30V and many others ... I like an edge to hold fairly well and to be strong ...

but I prefer a steel that I can get good performance from ... and still at the end of the day touch up or resharpen without $1000.00 of stones or sharpening systems and not spend 3 hours to get one knife back to the level of sharpness I like to have ...

I think 154CM (or my preference the CMP154) or a good VG10 are great steels and handle anything I need a knife to do.

Just one simple countryboy's opinion ... and I have no problem with those that want to have best they can get ... just saying theres a trade off ... cost ease of sharpening etc ... and I am starting to think many turn their noses up at some great steels ...

Guess this is the part I realize I must he getting old??? :confused:
Click to expand...

I find myself having exactly the same thoughts. My last purchase I looked at all the "super steels" and ended up picking a 52 100 blade, I know it will age and patina, but then again so have I.
 
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I have the same thoughts as well. In the real world, the question is whether a layperson can tell the difference in blade steel while actually cutting something. My 440c Eclipse sure cuts as well as does my higher end (Money...) ones. At least to me.
 
154CM is good stuff. Decent steel with a good blade grind is what counts to me. I like high flat to full flat grind blades. So many of today's blades are nothing more than downsized pry bars.
 
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