Why are Japanese cooking knives made of D2 or VG-10?

A

Apalachicola

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Jun 24, 2019
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See title. Those steels are not acceptable for my pocket folding knives. Is it because they are super quick to sharpen?
 
1 - what is valued in an edc knife is not the same as what is valued in a kitchen knife
2 - acceptable is largely self defined - don't buy one if you don't like the combination of price and steel
3 - I bet you look at a lot of factory knives
4 - D2 hasn't been used in a true Japanese kitchen knife that I know of, though SKD11 sometimes is. Now Chinese make look alikes on the other hand . . .
5 - VG-10 is a combination of rust resistance, reasonably fine grained, and durability for it's hardness
6 - that said Japanese smiths seem to use mostly blue and white steels. Somehow the majority of my collection is blue/blue super
 
Apalachicola said:
See title. Those steels are not acceptable for my pocket folding knives. Is it because they are super quick to sharpen?
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VG10 and R2 are both stainless and a bit harder than European steels--they market very effectively against quality European production knives for home cooks and some hobbyists. Enthusiasts often prefer carbon steel knives, and many home cooks purchase softer inexpensive mono steel knives. The differences between steels used for pocket knives and steels used for Japanese kitchen knives are far more complex than you seem to be supposing.
 
SKD and SLD are used in kitchen knives and are basically A2 and D2. Konosuke's HD is similar I believe, too, as a semi stainless. The D2 "recipe" can be produced with different methods to get smaller carbides, too. CPM D2 is a lot different performance wise than ingot made D2!
 
Ourorboros said:
1 - what is valued in an edc knife is not the same as what is valued in a kitchen knife
2 - acceptable is largely self defined - don't buy one if you don't like the combination of price and steel
3 - I bet you look at a lot of factory knives
4 - D2 hasn't been used in a true Japanese kitchen knife that I know of, though SKD11 sometimes is. Now Chinese make look alikes on the other hand . . .
5 - VG-10 is a combination of rust resistance, reasonably fine grained, and durability for it's hardness
6 - that said Japanese smiths seem to use mostly blue and white steels. Somehow the majority of my collection is blue/blue super
Click to expand...
I haven't tried every knife steel out there but I prefer the carbons, white, blue, AS.
It just seems to sharpen up nicer.
 
For those not wanting the responsibility of paper steels and the like, VG10 makes a quite fine and capable kitchen knife that is incredibly corrosion and stain resistant, quick to sharpen, and takes a useful keen edge.
 
*Not Japanese.....

Who says D2 wouldn't make an excellent kitchen knife???

These are ingot D2 that I have sent off to my high-end heat treater. a couple of these Will be making their users Very happy. D2 with it's large, toothy, chonky carbides, cuts through flesh and hide like a Monster!!!
And being almost stainless, doesn't hurt either.

It just has to be made, and heat treated right.

PS....
I could make my own personal knives out of ANY steel I wanted......and currently, for almost a year now....my edc is made from D2.
 
D2 is very similar to the sld/skd steels and the HD2 semi stainless steels used on many Japanese knives.

I sharpened up a vg-10 Takamura blade for a buddy and was very impressed with the edge it took. I was even more shocked when I saw it was Vg-10!! Vg-10 when heat treated properly can be a nice kitchen knife steel.

Same with D2; the heat treat and intended useage is very important. Would not be the first choice gor a bushcraft knife, but a slicer with a toothier edge, its great!
 
A Apalachicola I think you're going to have to give us some more detail about why you don't like those steels?
Remember in a kitchen environment you have easy access to cleaning and sharpening equipment, and you are cutting relatively soft things in a controlled way. Where as i don't know what you all are doing out in the bush.
Also if you're looking at the VG10 end of the spectrum you have to consider the cost of a ton of the steel where you're making the knife

Crag the Brewer said:
D2 with it's large, toothy, chonky carbides, cuts through flesh and hide like a Monster!!!
Click to expand...
See, that's the problem IMO :p the large carbides means it doesn't take a sufficiently fine edge and does too much cellular damage when you cut through food. This is why a lot of sushi chefs* like White steels. I like fine grain structure and small carbides to get very clean cuts

*apparently some like VG10 according to Budrichard above, but I haven't seen that. Not that i actually like sushi
 
Alex Topfer said:
A Apalachicola I think you're going to have to give us some more detail about why you don't like those steels?
Remember in a kitchen environment you have easy access to cleaning and sharpening equipment, and you are cutting relatively soft things in a controlled way. Where as i don't know what you all are doing out in the bush.
Also if you're looking at the VG10 end of the spectrum you have to consider the cost of a ton of the steel where you're making the knife


See, that's the problem IMO :p the large carbides means it doesn't take a sufficiently fine edge and does too much cellular damage when you cut through food. This is why a lot of sushi chefs* like White steels. I like fine grain structure and small carbides to get very clean cuts

*apparently some like VG10 according to Budrichard above, but I haven't seen that. Not that i actually like sushi
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Not arguing, just trying to understand.....
I don't really "cut" fish.
I clean them, then fry or grill depending on species


But, I Could see both sides of the steel argument.
With some soft, fleshy fruits such as grapes, and tomatoes a bit of "tooth" is an advantage for making a slice. Those micro serrations of carbide allow it to cut well. I could see that being ok for fish?
 
Cutting wise, yes, tooth will work. Texture wise, they want a smoother finish on the cut itself for sushi. Think of the end of rope when you chop/push cut straight down with a polished edge versus when you saw through it with a toothier edge.
 
Crag the Brewer said:
Not arguing, just trying to understand.....
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Yeah, same. I think we cook very differently, I mostly cook vegetarian stuff. A serrated knife for a tomato leaves a very messy surface that leaks a lot of juice. take a potato where you want to minimize the amount of loose starch, or herbs where you keep it intact so there's more flavour to be released when you bite into it.
but yeah, i think i can see how the rougher edge would work better for a lot of meat
 
When I used to butcher deer, I would leave the knives at a toothier edge to trim fat and silverskin off easier. The polished edge sometimes would slide on the fat if it was starting to dull. Toothy edges last a lot longer with that type of use!
 
Alex Topfer said:
Yeah, same. I think we cook very differently, I mostly cook vegetarian stuff. A serrated knife for a tomato leaves a very messy surface that leaks a lot of juice. take a potato where you want to minimize the amount of loose starch, or herbs where you keep it intact so there's more flavour to be released when you bite into it.
but yeah, i think i can see how the rougher edge would work better for a lot of meat
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Yeah, probably different way of cooking.
I don't want the taste trapped in the food fighting to get out while in my mouth. I already want it in my food. Pow, I wanna Smell it and taste it, before I'm eating it....ha
I like my flavors melted in, like 3 day old soup.

I smash garlic, and the herb mentioning makes me think of muddling mojito mint.....I wanna Crush it. Get those oils into my rum.

I definitely think the Japanese know what their doing, but there are many different ways. Maybe.

*Edit.
I'm a Taurus. I growl and snarl when I eat (over eat) certainly Not refined.... :D
 
I suppose we're just reinventing having a knife kit for different uses. More knives :P
Mortar and pestles are then a different thing, that affect the food in a different way
 
Home kitchens often serve as laboratory for diverse knife prep experiences; professional workstations are much more focused--setting the stage for very specialized tools--like the tools used by sushi chefs. As a home cook, I revel in the diversity of the challenges. There are always new things to learn.
 
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