Why are some people so biased on Cold Steel?

[lonestar1979]

Most of CS knives are designed and made to be used,and most are not overpriced.Never had any problems with CS knife,and especially their budget blades are amazing in what they offer for price and are actually made to be used.Ill continue to buy CS products as they offer more than other famous brands for fraction of price.These knives are designed for actual use,not collecting purposes like 90%and more knives on market.Heat treat is very good too.Thumbs up for that one and the grinds,no bs products.

 

[MarkN86]

This is nothing compared to the hate fests years back. Over time you see different brands go through this crap. ESEE used to be here, didn't Kershaw also move from the clannish fighting ? After a while you don't give a damn what others think anymore, you get true to yourself.

Kershaw did indeed move on, I remember when it happened, but if I remember correctly don't think it was the just the cliques that everyone formed that did it. There were a few especially toxic individuals who were continually bringing up the company's every fault to the point where KAI requested their forum be closed. It's OK to bring up something that bothers you to discuss improvements, it's another to fault every decision that's made.

I agree with you, nearly every company has their haters and their die hard fan boys. Do what you do, you are the one that has to live with it.

 

[John_0917]

I’ve never been drawn to the over the top models/antics (Espada, Lynn chopping pigs with swords etc), the Lawman and AK series are good, solid, sensible folders that are well made and a good value; that’s kind of where it starts and ends for me.

That said, I own about $250 in CS products (lawman, mini and regular AK).

A side note on Kai (Kershaw), they did leave but it should be noted that they are actively elsewhere. Thomas Welk, I believe their VP of Sales, seems like a massive asshole by the way he conducts himself.

 

[J V]

Any exposure is good exposure right? I imagine if Lynn Thompson was a 6'1" tall 200 lb linebacker built bearded guy with a Punisher t-shirt people would think he was awesome. The videos are over the top and, for a while anyway, sort of took themselves too seriously. It seems more like they're having fun now and are fun to watch instead of sort of cringey.

I'm not into all of their knives, and I certainly miss the original Recon 1 I had; but having grown up near Ventura Cold Steel was always there and I'll always own an SRK (still need to get a Trail Master).

30years back Lynn was simmillar type of guy, but you must think of it that he is more then 70 years old now...

 

[Chris_Texas]

My short answer: LT is a fighter, not only in the martial sense, but the personal and business sense as well. He designed and created innovative purpose built tools and fighting knives a market dominated by a few big names who made anything but that. He challenged them and their products, and in the process he challenged the loyal customers those brands had accumulated over the years. Then he went a step further and began publishing videos proving that his knives performed where these others did not.

It has not helped that LT has never made his contempt for these other companies a secret. He has publicly called them out repeatedly, particularly when it comes to martial blade designs. Cold Steel designs, tests, and releases fighting weapons. Their competitors for the most part do not, and often market absurdly small EDC knives as tactical weapons.

If you are framing a house you don't grab a ladies tack hammer. If you are climbing the Eiger wall you use rope instead of twine. If you need a knife as a weapon you want an XL Espada in your hand. When Cold Steel releases a video of someone cutting a Hippo in half with a folding knife it kinda makes the point clear.

 

[not2sharp]

Why the hate:
1) Lynn's personality and his constant focus on things tactical.
2) Cold Steels many lawsuits against other makers, for the use of the term "San mai"
3) Cold steels constant attacks on competing products via their "Proof videos"
4) The use of animal carcasses in their videos turns off vegetarian and triggers animal rights groups
5) Many of us see knives as tools and find it counter productive to constantly emphasize the weapons aspect.

Having said all of that. I have a great deal of respect for their knives, and feel that many of their knives offer durable solutions at reasonable values. Unfortunately, now that LT is out of the way, we have not heard much from the new owners. I would have thought this as an excellent opportunity to reposition many of these products to better balance utility with self-defense use.

n2s

 

[Smiling]

Also to add:

Terrible sheaths, and switch to steel used for wall hangers (4034 SS).

 

[Houlahound]

All the CS haters are going to have to find a new hobby now

 

[Chris_Texas]

Why the hate:
1) Lynn's personality and his constant focus on things tactical.
2) Cold Steels many lawsuits against other makers, for the use of the term "San mai"
3) Cold steels constant attacks on competing products via their "Proof videos"
4) The use of animal carcasses in their videos turns off vegetarian and triggers animal rights groups
5) Many of us see knives as tools and find it counter productive to constantly emphasize the weapons aspect.

Having said all of that. I have a great deal of respect for their knives, and feel that many of their knives offer durable solutions at reasonable values. Unfortunately, now that LT is out of the way, we have not heard much from the new owners. I would have thought this as an excellent opportunity to reposition many of these products to better balance utility with self-defense use.

n2s

And there are others who see some knives as tools and others as weapons, and appreciate Cold Steel for unapologetically offering both. What I find interesting is how this bothers some people. You see it in the gun community as well, with some gun owners completely rejecting self defense as a legitimate reason to own these weapons. I do not share this opinion.

 

[The Whip]

Just a couple points of clarification, because the repetition of these kinds of things on the Internet only continues to foster bad blood.

Why the hate:

2) Cold Steels many lawsuits against other makers, for the use of the term "San mai"

To my knowledge, Cold Steel never sued anyone over the use of the term san mai. Lynn Thompson sent letters to makers who applied the term to their knives in order to sell them, asking them to cease doing so because Cold Steel owns a registered trademark on the name San Mai. Since Cold Steel does own that trademark,

those letters were no different than the similar actions that Spyderco took within the knife industry protecting its Round Hole, for which I NEVER see anyone criticize Spyderco.

Why the hate:

3) Cold steels constant attacks on competing products via their "Proof videos"

Cold Steel recently did plenty of lock-strength comparison videos on YouTube that used other brands' knives. But none of those were included in the Proof videos that Cold Steel distributed. The Proof videos that Cold Steel gave out for decades only tested Cold Steel products.


On a related note, at Blade Show 2019 I heard a prominent knife writer claim that it was well-known in the knife community that Lynn Thompson was infamous for stealing knife designs from custom makers and turning them into production Cold Steel knives without attribution. He didn't say which designs, which makers, when this occurred, or who it was making these claims. He just blurted out the disparagement like like it was fact.

Do you think perhaps that kind of ridiculous grist being added to the rumor mill has anything to do with Cold Steel's reputation in the knife community?


-Steve

 

[nephron]

Nowadays it seems that a lot of people are not happy unless they have something to complain about(thanks social media). So Cold Steel is doing a great service for those people, to be honest I like it that some people complain about CS for exactly what I like them for. How long have they been in business again, must be doing something right for the masses. Its just static to me nowadays with all the hate out there.

 

[not2sharp]

Just a couple points of clarification, because the repetition of these kinds of things on the Internet only continues to foster bad blood.....

Do you think perhaps that kind of ridiculous grist being added to the rumor mill has anything to do with Cold Steel's reputation in the knife community?

-Steve

Perhaps a good reason for Cold Steel to get its act together and stake a clear position. Right now they are at risk of becoming yet another Dark Ops. Clearly San Mai is an ancient process, and a copyright. I see nothing wrong with referring to an item as of san mai construction, although their may be an issue if you label it "San Mai steel". We had a similar issue with Benchmade many years ago; which led to the creation of the replacement term mid-tech.

n2s

 

[Chris_Texas]

Just a couple points of clarification, because the repetition of these kinds of things on the Internet only continues to foster bad blood.



To my knowledge, Cold Steel never sued anyone over the use of the term san mai. Lynn Thompson sent letters to makers who applied the term to their knives in order to sell them, asking them to cease doing so because Cold Steel owns a registered trademark on the name San Mai. Since Cold Steel does own that trademark,

those letters were no different than the similar actions that Spyderco took within the knife industry protecting its Round Hole, for which I NEVER see anyone criticize Spyderco.




Cold Steel recently did plenty of lock-strength comparison videos on YouTube that used other brands' knives. But none of those were included in the Proof videos that Cold Steel distributed. The Proof videos that Cold Steel gave out for decades only tested Cold Steel products.


On a related note, at Blade Show 2019 I heard a prominent knife writer claim that it was well-known in the knife community that Lynn Thompson was infamous for stealing knife designs from custom makers and turning them into production Cold Steel knives without attribution. He didn't say which designs, which makers, when this occurred, or who it was making these claims. He just blurted out the disparagement like like it was fact.

Do you think perhaps that kind of ridiculous grist being added to the rumor mill has anything to do with Cold Steel's reputation in the knife community?


-Steve

Your last point is undoubtedly as true as the claim is silly. Any custom knife maker who thinks they created something new when it comes to blade design is almost certainly mistaken. New lock? Sure. New way to open a folder? Sure. New blade shape? Get a clue. Every knife maker uses and sometimes modifies existing designs to suit their intended purpose and to sell more knives.

The business I own is considered an innovator by the rest of my industry. My competitors try (and generally fail) to copy us-- at least when doing so is easy. I don't cry about it. That's just business. We focus on what we are gonna do next.

There are thousands of companies trying to sell knives. Most we will never hear about. Cold Steel is one of a handful known and respected across the world. What really distinguishes them, what made them world famous, is that they are damn near the only major company out there unapologetically offering martial weapons.

So, if they are pretty much the only people doing it, who and what did they supposedly copy? What design did Cold Steel, and Cold Steel alone,, steal? Am I supposed to be outraged they made a bunch of Bowles? They stole the idea of the double edged Dagger? Hell, the description in their catalogs and videos tell you where the idea came from. And according to Spyxerco's owner, Lynn Thompson was the only guy who volunteered to pay them for using the spyderhole idea.

 

[GIRLYmann]

public humiliation and defeat in destructive test is reason enough for any competitor to
hold a grudge against the likes of cold steel
knives and the man behind it.
lynn thompson's cold steel will forever be
talked about in knife circles.
its a shame that not everyone agrees
with the way cold steel was promoted
via the legendary CS proof videos.
being brutally honest, all lynn really did
was to expose the truth of the type of robustness crafted into his knives.
its tragic that most competitors never
sought to up their own game...this
denial on their part is counter productive
to improving product excellence as a whole.
they only have themselves to blame.

 

[Mark Spark]

I am not a cold steel fan. I can’t stand the marketing and the titles they give their knives. I will agree with everyone here in that the price to performance ratio is unmatched. I am an Andrew Demko fan. Let’s not forget he designed the triad lock (and many of their most popular knives). If he didn’t work for cold steel I don’t believe they would have the same level of popularity. Just my opinion of course and I am not here to troll as I stated above, you cannot buy a better folding knife for the money.

Who do you think gave Andrew Demko his start? Who recognized how good the triad lock is, and gave AD a generous royalty deal? Also note, per AD himself, the triad lock requires extremely tight manufacturing tolerances. Based on inspection, I believe they are using electrical discharge machining to get the few/10,000's tolerance. This doesn't come cheap. Those outrageous lock strengths don't come easy. Yet CS folders are priced like or better than ordinary folders.
I believe that LT loves knives so much he underpriced his products. I suspect this led to the sale. I'm glad I have a lot of their knives. I predict a gradual decline in price/performance until they are the same as the other guys.

 

[Mark Spark]

Who do you think gave Andrew Demko his start? Who recognized how good the triad lock is, and gave AD a generous royalty deal? Also note, per AD himself, the triad lock requires extremely tight manufacturing tolerances. Based on inspection, I believe they are using electrical discharge machining to get the few/10,000's tolerance. This doesn't come cheap. Those outrageous lock strengths don't come easy. Yet CS folders are priced like or better than ordinary folders.
I believe that LT loves knives so much he underpriced his products. I suspect this led to the sale. I'm glad I have a lot of their knives. I predict a gradual decline in price/performance until they are the same as the other guys.

To be fair, I should also state that I hate their sheaths. I also think they make their springs typically excessively strong sometimes to the point of defective. The whole 4034 thing is not pleasant either, I wish they had used 14C28N or AEB-L instead. But I still prefer them to all other knife companies.

 

[johnnytoxin]

Who do you think gave Andrew Demko his start? Who recognized how good the triad lock is, and gave AD a generous royalty deal? Also note, per AD himself, the triad lock requires extremely tight manufacturing tolerances. Based on inspection, I believe they are using electrical discharge machining to get the few/10,000's tolerance. This doesn't come cheap. Those outrageous lock strengths don't come easy. Yet CS folders are priced like or better than ordinary folders.
I believe that LT loves knives so much he underpriced his products. I suspect this led to the sale. I'm glad I have a lot of their knives. I predict a gradual decline in price/performance until they are the same as the other guys.

Without Demko, Cold Steel would have been nothing in the folding knife game. Demko didn’t give Cold Steel its start by any means, but he definitely pushed them to their peak. Your suspicion that LT loved knives so much he underpriced them is hilarious. I’m sure he underpriced the sale of the company as well.

 

[Houlahound]

CS forced every (mainly non-traditional folders) production knife maker that exists to improve and they smashed a lot of sacred cows while doing so.

A large chunk of that part of the industry can relax now and move toward the mediocrity from which they came.

 

[Chris_Texas]

public humiliation and defeat in destructive test is reason enough for any competitor to
hold a grudge against the likes of cold steel
knives and the man behind it.
lynn thompson's cold steel will forever be
talked about in knife circles.
its a shame that not everyone agrees
with the way cold steel was promoted
via the legendary CS proof videos.
being brutally honest, all lynn really did
was to expose the truth of the type of robustness crafted into his knives.
its tragic that most competitors never
sought to up their own game...this
denial on their part is counter productive
to improving product excellence as a whole.
they only have themselves to blame.

Business competition is a big deal to the owners of that business. After all, you are attacking their career, their kids food and home, their pride. It is a big deal. None the less that competition is gonna take place. No matter what you make and sell your customers only have so much money to spend and you want it all.

Mr Thompson competed by finding a couple unique niches that he could fill, primarily the martial blades and weapons the other companies turned their noses up to, and by selling a product that was significantly stronger, with comparable or superior steels, for less money.

He claimed and proved that Cold Steel knives were better tools. His competitors responded by claiming that their knives were more fashionable, more exclusive, and thus cooler. And more, by suggesting that Cold Steel's customers were losers and mall ninjas and all that garbage we still see today. They also pushed the absurd mantra that Cold Steel totally rips off everyone else's amazing designs-- all while offering nothing more than standard small-blade liner-lock tape cutters. Some of which they have the audacity to market as tactical knives fit for defensive use.

The later really takes the cake by the way. These companies and the industry all talked shit about Cold Steel's Tantos, but now they all make them. Often poorly. They all talked big shit about Cold Steel's tactical and fighting knives, and the people who buy them, but now damn near every one is slinging some undersized and unimpressive "tacti-cool" mini-folder inprired with a military sounding name by some bearded and tattooed spec ops warrior. It's the Tango Zulu Trident 3inch drop point, look at this guy's tattoos and muscles. Bunch of nonsense.

 

[Mark Spark]

Business competition is a big deal to the owners of that business. After all, you are attacking their career, their kids food and home, their pride. It is a big deal. None the less that competition is gonna take place. No matter what you make and sell your customers only have so much money to spend and you want it all.

Mr Thompson competed by finding a couple unique niches that he could fill, primarily the martial blades and weapons the other companies turned their noses up to, and by selling a product that was significantly stronger, with comparable or superior steels, for less money.

He claimed and proved that Cold Steel knives were better tools. His competitors responded by claiming that their knives were more fashionable, more exclusive, and thus cooler. And more, by suggesting that Cold Steel's customers were losers and mall ninjas and all that garbage we still see today. They also pushed the absurd mantra that Cold Steel totally rips off everyone else's amazing designs-- all while offering nothing more than standard small-blade liner-lock tape cutters. Some of which they have the audacity to market as tactical knives fit for defensive use.

The later really takes the cake by the way. These companies and the industry all talked shit about Cold Steel's Tantos, but now they all make them. Often poorly. They all talked big shit about Cold Steel's tactical and fighting knives, and the people who buy them, but now damn near every one is slinging some undersized and unimpressive "tacti-cool" mini-folder inprired with a military sounding name by some bearded and tattooed spec ops warrior. It's the Tango Zulu Trident 3inch drop point, look at this guy's tattoos and muscles. Bunch of nonsense.