Why arent infrared thermometers not used to check the heat of a blade when it comes from forge?

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Mar 2, 2018
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I was just wondering. I have watched ALOT of videos saying x type of steel has to be at y temperature to accept a good oil or water quench, and sometimes blades get warped or crack, if done at the wrong temperature and whatnot. I am just wondering why people dont shoot it with an infrared thermometer and take a 3 second reading to see if they are in the temperature zone the blade should be in before dropping it in the quench.

I am just asking because I noticed the other day when I went in to buy a file at CT that they had their infrared guns on for 30 bucks, instead of the 99 they are usually on, and I figured it would be a handy thing to have to be able to know the temp of the steel exactly.
 
Are you referring to large manufacturers, for example Benchmade, ZT, Spyderco, Cold Steel or custom knife makers?
 
Are you referring to large manufacturers, for example Benchmade, ZT, Spyderco, Cold Steel or custom knife makers?

I guess im meaning more custom knife makers as those are the videos I have been watching, and alot of videos either on youtube, or the tv show forged in fire, vimeo or whatever video platform I have watched alot of times I have seen them say, welp I hope it is the right temperature. So it just got me curious.
 
Basic ones only measure up to 600°F which wouldn't be helpful. I'm sure there are IR thermometers that can measure much higher temps, but I'm not sure how much they would cost.
 
Basic ones only measure up to 600°F which wouldn't be helpful. I'm sure there are IR thermometers that can measure much higher temps, but I'm not sure how much they would cost.

Ahhh I see, that makes sense then. The package I was looking at didnt indicate what temperatures it was good for, not that I noticed anyway.
 
There are IR guns that go up to 2000° but the hotter steel is the greater the inaccuracy. The guns measure black body radiation and every surface emits a different amount of IR at the same temp. Very high end guns can be adjusted to match the material thy are testing but even then thy are not acurate enough.
 
I just returned my 1900f ir temp gun on Amazon a week ago, I even bought the one that was calibrated . I came to the same conclusion as JT. The EMS setting was too difficult to set to the steel to get an accurate result. Don't waste the cash.
 
The coolest high temp gage gun I have even seen used a tiny light bulb. You would look through a viewing window and aim it at the steel. You would adjust a knob till the filament of the bulb disappeared agent the hit steel. Then read the temp off the side of the the unit.
 
they can be used for a brief check, but they are just as our eyes...at least they behave likely. Once they "stared" at glowing steel for a while, if you try to measure any ambient temperature object it reads way hotter for a long time...like your eyes when they get flashed and you see the white dot.
I have 2, one is cheaper and the other is pricey but their behaviour is similar in that regard.
Did anyone find the same?
 
What about high temp crayons? Is there a way to use those ? I could see a few uses in tempering but can't figure out a way to use them for hardening. Maybe in a muffle?
 
Basic ones only measure up to 600°F which wouldn't be helpful. I'm sure there are IR thermometers that can measure much higher temps, but I'm not sure how much they would cost.
I have one that goes to 2300F. It's still useless on something as small as a blade. It reads all over the place.
 
What about high temp crayons? Is there a way to use those ? I could see a few uses in tempering but can't figure out a way to use them for hardening. Maybe in a muffle?

Why so desperate to find something to tell you the temp when we already have something that works. Just use a magnetic to check for the cury point. That will get you very close to reguired quench temp and honestly be much more accurate then the gun or crayons. After the quench just file check it. If it’s not hard then do it agian but a little hotter.
 
Laser and similar temp non-contact guns are not accurate once the steel starts to glow red. The hotter the steel gets above 1000F brighter the steel glows, and the more inaccurate the readings gets. There are lab guns that can be adjusted, and with some fine tuning can give fairly good readings. These are very expensive, and really only accurate for the thing it was adjusted for. Switch the target object and the accuracy goes away. I have a $1600 temp gun that I mainly use for checking the grill and steaks. I don't consider it accurate enough for doing HT.

When doing HT, if you want accuracy, you need either a HT oven with a controller, or a forge with a PID readout pyrometer. There is a section in the stickys that tells how to hook up your forge for PID control that will give very accurate HT control. A muffle is also a good idea for forge HT. You can start with the PID used as a read-only device to tell what the forge chamber is at, and then can add the parts to control the gas later on.
My two-stage forge control is used by many people who get +/- 2 to 5 degree accuracy in a forge. It works best with a blown burner.

The low cost laser pyrometers at HF and other hardware places are great for checking the quench oil temp, checking the tempering oven temp, and checking on things below 900F. These sell for between $10 and $30. There is little difference between them despite the pricing. I have several around the shop to check all sorts of things. My most used test is to check how hot the outside of the HT oven is. This has saved burned fingertips more than once.

Templi-stix are good for some tasks, but not really suited for doing HT. They can be used to test out the HT oven accuracy or check a PID forge control out. I keep them in 1435, 1450 and 1465. That will tell me if the HT oven is roughly in range. Set the oven to 1425 and program steps at 5 degrees each up to 1475. Have a 5 minute hold at each temp. write 1435/1450/1465 on a piece of steel with the coordinating crayon. Place in the 1425 oven and check after four minutes. Note if the 1425 has changed or not, and return the steel to the oven. Repeat, checking and making notations for each step. You can get a good track graph of the oven actual temp accuracy this way. Adjust your HT regimes accordingly.
 
Why so desperate to find something to tell you the temp when we already have something that works. Just use a magnetic to check for the cury point. That will get you very close to reguired quench temp and honestly be much more accurate then the gun or crayons. After the quench just file check it. If it’s not hard then do it agian but a little hotter.

The sticks are supposed to be 1% accurate. Not super tight at that temp anyway. I couldn't think of a way to realisticly use them other than maybe for guys who soften the spine on a hot bar. I was just wondering if anyone had thought of a way to actually use them for heat teating. I have tried that magnet and file thing a couple times, it's alright :p
 
Thank you for all the answers everyone. As some of you may have noticed my intro post. I am new to knifemaking. New as in havent made my first one yet. I just finished my workbench today and will be starting my first one shortly. I asked because Im trying to devour as much info as I can, and saw one of these guns, and thought it would be a useful tool for taking some guesswork out of the prcess and giving some accurate measurements.
Thank you again for all your answers. They have been super helpful.
 
For taking readings in a forge or oven, an ebay PID and 8-10 gauge TC with sheath will work quite well.
This;
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Type-K-The...926894&hash=item1c98dcc849:g:YMAAAOSwI-BWLnxj
plus this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-LC...hash=item2ef84e8a3f:m:mzDtEZV-bmYgyPrdqh8P0dg
Will give you a very good readout of the forge or kiln.

You will notice that that PID has a SSDR and heat sink with it. You can set them aside for the time being if just wanting to read the temperature, but by using them you can set the forge temperature just like a HT kiln.

When the SSR is connected to a propane rated solenoid, it will control the forge to an exact temperature.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/110VAC-Methane-Gas-Fuel-Propane-2-Ways-NC-Solenoid-Valve-1-4-BSPP-Connection-CE/261887210500?_trkparms=aid=555017&algo=PL.CASSINI&ao=1&asc=20150817211758&meid=5c73130a4c8a4193b27f6c5e68b53c99&pid=100507&rk=1&rkt=1&&itm=261887210500&_trksid=p2045573.c100507.m3226
A better solenoid would be :
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Asco-R...922097&hash=item43ffd315ce:g:rKQAAOSwOddYxxFx
or - https://www.ebay.com/itm/ASCO-RED-H...906853&hash=item589f5c22dc:g:md8AAOxyshFRezLr

Read the sticky on PID controlled burners and forges for more info.
 
The only true way to know if your steel has gone into solution is by witnessing the decalescence. Learn to do that.
 
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