Why Choils?

The Spyderco PM2 (my EDC) does a great job of combining handle contouring and ricasso/blade shaping to create IMO a perfect choil.
View attachment 1127539

The finger groove in the ricasso of your PM2 is not a perfect choil, because it is not any kind of choil.

Per Merriam-Webster:

choil
noun
\ ˈchȯi(ə)l\
plural -s
Definition of choil

: the angle in a pocketknife blade at the junction of the wedge-shaped cutting part with the tang or the corresponding part of any knife

For a notch to be a choil it must intersect the blade edge. The PM2's finger groove is separated from the edge by a kick; thus, it comes no where near being a choil.
 
The finger groove in the ricasso of your PM2 is not a perfect choil, because it is not any kind of choil.

Per Merriam-Webster:

choil
noun
\ ˈchȯi(ə)l\
plural -s
Definition of choil

: the angle in a pocketknife blade at the junction of the wedge-shaped cutting part with the tang or the corresponding part of any knife

For a notch to be a choil it must intersect the blade edge. The PM2's finger groove is separated from the edge by a kick; thus, it comes no where near being a choil.
Thank you. I'm a n00b with regards to knives so I did not know this. My Matt Lamey EDC Bowie has a choil that is similar in function to the finger groove on the PM2.
Resizer_15615570928110.jpg
Resizer_15615570928111.jpg
Resizer_15615570928112.jpg
Hopefully I can be forgiven as I'm not reviewing knives on YT.

Thanks again for giving me the lowdown. :thumbsup::cool:
 
Hopefully I can be forgiven as I'm not reviewing knives on YT.

I'll forgive you if you tell me some details about your Lamey EDC.

A noob can be forgiven because the word, choil, is so frequently misused by the professed blade elites. For example, KnifeNews.com doesn't know the difference between a choil and a finger groove (https://knifenews.com/three-rivers-manufacturing-releasing-two-mid-year-sequels/):

...

Atlas
The Nomad slipjoint was the original TRM flagship offering for several years. However, Halpern says the diminutive slipjoint is officially retiring to make room for its sequel, the Atlas. “The original Nomad had a good life and has a lot of fans, but this will be the new Nomad model going forward.”

She goes on to say that the Atlas features streamlined construction and a slimmer build than the Nomad. “We’ve made it a lot simpler. There’s a lot less hardware and we’ve thinned the entire design out.” The simpler build is complimented by a refinement of the ergonomics, with a finger choil and groove on the handle working in conjunction for comfort and control. The Atlas’ non-locking blade is 1.99 inches long and made from S35VN steel. Its titanium and composite frame keeps its weight low at 2.1 oz.

2-Atlases-on-Blade-Show-map-Copy.png


... .
 
I'll forgive you if you tell me some details about your Lamey EDC.

A noob can be forgiven because the word, choil, is so frequently misused by the professed blade elites. For example, KnifeNews.com doesn't know the difference between a choil and a finger groove (https://knifenews.com/three-rivers-manufacturing-releasing-two-mid-year-sequels/):

...

Atlas
The Nomad slipjoint was the original TRM flagship offering for several years. However, Halpern says the diminutive slipjoint is officially retiring to make room for its sequel, the Atlas. “The original Nomad had a good life and has a lot of fans, but this will be the new Nomad model going forward.”

She goes on to say that the Atlas features streamlined construction and a slimmer build than the Nomad. “We’ve made it a lot simpler. There’s a lot less hardware and we’ve thinned the entire design out.” The simpler build is complimented by a refinement of the ergonomics, with a finger choil and groove on the handle working in conjunction for comfort and control. The Atlas’ non-locking blade is 1.99 inches long and made from S35VN steel. Its titanium and composite frame keeps its weight low at 2.1 oz.

2-Atlases-on-Blade-Show-map-Copy.png


... .
Lol. Yes. I fully agree with you that people claiming to be knife experts should definitely know the difference.

As for the Lamey, I picked it up in a trade so I don't know a whole lot. I do love it though! I'm fairly certain the steel is W2 as Lamey really loves that stuff.

In one of my sales threads for a Benchmade 940-1, I mentioned Bussekin as a possible trades and a really cool guy offered me the Lamey. It looked cool and I did some cursory research online and thought - what the hell. Wow! One of my favorite knives!

I'm going to have @cpirtle make me one of his EDC sheaths for it when he gets around to my order.
 
From what I have read, the original purpose of a choil was to have an unsharpened area to protect your finger in case of an accidental closure on a pocketknife.
 
From what I have read, the original purpose of a choil was to have an unsharpened area to protect your finger in case of an accidental closure on a pocketknife.

This seems not plausible to me. For that to work, a choil would have to take up an unreasonable amount of the pocket knife's blade. And I don't know that I've ever seen a folding knife with a choil big enough to protect even the index finger in the event of an accidental closure (negligent closure?). Most pocket knives I've seen just have a small notch at the end of the cutting edge, and not a big finger choil like Busse often uses. I think the real original purpose of a choil to allow the full length of the cutting edge to be properly sharpened, with a big finger choil having the added benefit of allowing more precise work with bigger blades (or the detriment of a somewhat shorter cutting edge, if you're a glass half-empty type).
 
I think that definition refers to the bottom of the ricasso, which would fit another definition:
large un-sharpened part of the knife blade that is located at the ricasso: where the blade becomes part of the handle.
5283332882_9987b2dc42.jpg
 
I think that definition refers to the bottom of the ricasso, which would fit another definition:

5283332882_9987b2dc42.jpg

Your definition defines the ricasso as the junction of the blade edge and tang, not anywhere psterior to this junction.

Per Blade Magazine (https://blademag.com/blog/can-define-knife-choil):

One definition for knife choil from an unknown source describes it as “a small notch between the edge and tang of the blade.” According to the “Knife Encyclopedia” on the website of A.G. Russell Knives, a knife choil is “the cut-away area between the edge and the tang of a pocketknife blade and between the edge and the guard of a straight (aka fixed-blade) knife. The choil may or may not have enough space for a finger. Its true purpose is to allow the edge to be sharpened all the way to the tang in a pocketknife and to the end of the edge in others. Any reference of choil and finger space or choil and handle is improper.” In an old issue of the American Blade, today’s BLADE® Magazine, BLADE Magazine Cutlery Hall-Of-Fame© member Blackie Collins defined a knife choil as “the area immediately in front of the guard at the bottom of the blade. It is occasionally shaped to accept the index finger to facilitate a more secure hold on certain types of knives for various operations. It actually serves a more useful purpose as it allows the full length of the cutting edge to be properly sharpened.”

choil-western-cutlery.jpeg


To expand on the definitions of both A.G. Russell Knives and Mr. Collins, while a knife choil may have enough space to accept a finger for certain types of cutting operations, such a capability is not the choil’s stated purpose. In some instances you may hear the term for such a feature called a finger choil. According to Russell’s definition above, such a reference is “improper.” In fact, sometimes what is incorrectly referred to as a finger choil is really more of a finger groove that spans the undersides of both the handle and the ricasso or the blade tang. Meanwhile, some new factory knives seem to be downplaying the knife choil if not eliminating it entirely.

Be that as it may, the chief purpose of the knife choil, as noted by the definitions of both Russell and Collins, is to allow the full length of the cutting edge to be properly sharpened. In other words, it is simply a small notch between where the cutting edge ends and the ricasso or the blade tang begins that indicates where you should stop when sharpening the blade with a stone, diamond-coated abrasive or what have you.

******

It is easy to disagree with Russell's contention that the term, finger choil, is inappropriate. Any choil that is large enough to safely accommodate a finger is logically and appropriately called a "finger choil." In other words, all choils serve a purpose for sharpening, while a finger choil also safely accommodates one's forefinger.
 
I think that definition refers to the bottom of the ricasso, which would fit another definition:

5283332882_9987b2dc42.jpg

This knife has a choil between the ricasso and the blade. No one really knows where the choil term came from, but it is obvious that the nepalese term cho had something to do with it. If you look at the cho on a nepalese kukri it was placed there for few reasons, one being ceremonial(religious) and the other was to keep blood from dripping into the handle and making it slick. The latter may have been an afterthought but it fit. It morphed into an area that cannot be sharpened so that when you sharpen you do not start sharpening the ricasso. Finger Choil is the cho large enough to fit a finger, like busse and other makers use. If the finger groove is part of the handle it is not a finger choil it is a finger groove. Simple. I'll go back to drinking now.
 
Back
Top