Why D2

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Sep 7, 2017
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149
Why are the knife companies from China all using D2 steel?
I’m to the point I will not buy a knife if it has D2 steel. I don’t trust the chinesiam steel from that country.
 
D2 is an inexpensive steel for delivering good edge retention for the dollar. With a coating, there’s no real drawback.

Having said that, which Chinese brands are you talking about? Two Sun, etc? Kizer, Reate, Bestech, WE, and Rike use S35VN so often, it’s pretty much standard. When they use something else, it’s usually M390.
 
Kizer uses vg10 and S35vn as far as I know.
Bestech, Artisian Cutlerly, all the recent Chinese spinoff companies use “D2”. You have to wonder why.
I have been going American companies lately. Hogue, Benchmade
 
D2 is a proven steel that is well within the capabilities to manufacture with and heat treat properly. The cost of the raw materials is going to be a whole lots less, almost comparable to carbon steels, as well.

Someday, the newer steels will turn up but, right now the technology to make the metal and heat treat it is not practical for them; at least not at a pricepoint their consumers will accept in the marketplace. Frankly, I don't see them importing raw 'super' steel from either the USA or EU either (at least not in any significant quantity for knives) so, until they learn to make it themselves and the various patents expire, it probably won't be available in their knives.

At some point, the Chinese will have a Benchmade/SureFire/Spyderco type brand which may make importation of 'super steels' financially reasonable and all bets are off at that point with where the marketplace goes.

Right now, they mainly compete on the low end 'commodity' side of knife sales with all those 'cheap' entry level knives for major manufacturers and some outright knock-offs. Hence D2 as the 'premium' steel to their domestic stamped steels.

China is on a similar trajectory to Japan and Korea so, whether we like it or not, their economy and demographics are headed along a path that is apt end up like their two Asian peers.
 
D2 is an inexpensive steel for delivering good edge retention for the dollar. With a coating, there’s no real drawback.

Having said that, which Chinese brands are you talking about? Two Sun, etc? Kizer, Reate, Bestech, WE, and Rike use S35VN so often, it’s pretty much standard. When they use something else, it’s usually M390.

I believe the OP is referring to more entry level knives, not the more 'boutique' manufacturers with specialized markets.
 
I believe the OP is referring to more entry level knives, not the more 'boutique' manufacturers with specialized markets.

That would seem to be the case, which is why I jumped on, “why are Chinese companies... all using...”

The short answer is, “they’re not.”
 
Any companies using D2, chinese or not, I think have learned that if they want to sell an inexpensive knife and have it sell well thats the way to go. People aren’t as accepting of cheap steels as they used to be. Make a rat in aus 8, it sells but use D2 and everyone flocks to it. Ive never had a problem with D2 from any company.
 
Because there are enough knives in 8cr13mov already. Not all Chinese brands are using D2 but some are. D2 allows them to hit a price point that is often expected of Chinese made knives but gives the performance of a much more expensive knife, especially in folders where toughness isn't needed. Even in short fixed blades it's still a great option unless you're working in the ocean.

D2 is nothing special but very special at the same time, IMO. Punches way above it's weight for edge retention per $. I also see a lot of 440C in Chinese knives that are in the same budget category as the D2 Chinese made knives hitting a nice price point with decent performance. Both D2 and 440C have been around long enough that everyone knows how to do a decent job with them.

D2 and CPM M4 are probably my favorite steels for cutting knives for budget and premium knife price ranges. Choppers, 52100.
 
Why are the knife companies from China all using D2 steel?
I’m to the point I will not buy a knife if it has D2 steel. I don’t trust the chinesiam steel from that country.

"chinesiam"... cute. Got a question and xenophobic slap in all at the same time.

If you don't trust a company, don't buy their product no matter what you think they might be doing in their manufacture or use of materials. That is your right and only makes good sense.

There will no doubt be those that will gladly pile on here to tell you they "know" that Chinese makers aren't using D2. No testing, no smoking gun, no manufacturer's purchasing receipts, needed. They can tell what steel is being used by holding a knife (maybe any knife!) and determine its authenticity. They know the real truth from osmosis and by reading the internet.

I have no doubt that as with all products, including products we know and trust, there are issues of bait and switch. So as with all products, only buy brands from people you trust. I believe that the verified vendors on BF most likely take the time to make sure they aren't cheating customers. I don't think they would knowingly sell a phony product, and plenty of them sell knives with D2 blades.

You should read a bit more on D2. https://goo.gl/UQx4VU

Although mine and many others favor this steel as a reliable hard worker, you can see that it is far from meeting the needs of today's "super steel" crowd, and is in fact, an old steel developed decades ago as a tool steel. At this time, it is manufactured all over the planet and the price is inexpensive. A quick look shows (less shipping) that it can be purchased for about $250 to $300 a ton.

So, on this rainy day in my town:

One ton of D2 at $275 per ton + $50 a ton shipping = $325 per ton cost.
2000 pounds X 16 = 32,000 ounces, or .01 per ounce. One cent.
So if an average 6 ounce folder is 1/2 blade, that would mean a 3 oz blade.
So raw material cost per blade would be about 3 cents.

Do you really think anyone would counterfeit such a dirt cheap, readily available steel? They could I guess, but doubtful any manufacturer of any repute would find that a worthwhile effort.

Robert
 
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I am willing to be corrected if I am wrong. Isn't D2 a generic recipe made by multiple suppliers, whereas S30v, M390, etc are proprietary steels available from only one source (Crucible, Carpenter, Sandvik, etc?)
 
Why are the knife companies from China all using D2 steel?
I’m to the point I will not buy a knife if it has D2 steel. I don’t trust the chinesiam steel from that country.
Because even with the crappy ht that they use it still works well and is cheap. It could be a lot better but China.

But d2 with there ht is better than the super soft ht they do on all the other budget steels.

Tho there d2 is not rust resistant and very chippy the edge lasts longer than the rest of the budgets

If you want good d2 ht check out Dozier and carothers performance knives but your going to pay a premium for the better ht. Some will say these perform on par with higher end super steels. But not the China stuff.

Several Chinese factories will not use actual d2 or variations of d2. Only the major top brands use k110 D2. Alot of the others will label d2 but will be 8cr13mov etc like efangrow etc.
 
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"chinesiam"... cute. Got a question and xenophobic slap in all at the same time.

If you don't trust a company, don't buy their product no matter what you think they might be doing in their manufacture or use of materials. That is your right and only makes good sense.

There will no doubt be those that will gladly pile on here to tell you they "know" that Chinese makers aren't using D2. No testing, no smoking gun, no manufacturer's purchasing receipts, needed. They can tell what steel is being used by holding a knife (maybe any knife!) and determine its authenticity. They know the real truth from osmosis and by reading the internet.

I have no doubt that as with all products, including products we know and trust, there are issues of bait and switch. So as with all products, only buy brands from people you trust. I believe that the verified vendors on BF most likely take the time to make sure they aren't cheating customers. I don't think they would knowingly sell a phony product, and plenty of them sell knives with D2 blades.

You should read a bit more on D2. https://goo.gl/UQx4VU

Although mine and many others favor this steel as a reliable hard worker, you can see that it is far from meeting the needs of today's "super steel" crowd, and is in fact, an old steel developed decades ago as a tool steel. At this time, it is manufactured all over the planet and the price is inexpensive. A quick look shows (less shipping) that it can be purchased for about $250 to $300 a ton.

So, on this rainy day in my town:

One ton of D2 at $275 per ton + $50 a ton shipping = $325 per ton cost.
2000 pounds X 16 = 32,000 ounces, or .01 per ounce. One cent.
So if an average 6 ounce folder is 1/2 blade, that would mean a 3 oz blade.
So raw material cost per blade would be about 3 cents.

Do you really think anyone would counterfeit such a dirt cheap, readily available steel? They could I guess, but doubtful any manufacturer of any repute would find that a worthwhile effort.

Robert[/QUOTE/]


Thank you that was an awesome reply.
 
I guess in china they would call it Cr12Mo1V1 like Otai Steel, but if it is ISO certified I don't think Chinese D2 should not be exactly the same quality as Bohler's or Crucible's.

All the merit come from how the hardening treatment is performed. China is a excellent manufacturing machine and make the product like the customer wants it. If you want High-End they can do it. If you want cheap they can do it too.
 
All the merit come from how the hardening treatment is performed. China is a excellent manufacturing machine and make the product like the customer wants it. If you want High-End they can do it. If you want cheap the can do it too.
This is true to an extent.. Until recently China has mostly just had Cr steel available and most of the ht equipment can't get up very high in temp so steel that requires high heat like BD1 were never an option. They would of had to outsource. Now is a different story they now have access to higher end steels and a few factories have higher end ovens now. Even then they would have to know the right ht recipes of which many don't invest in figuring out. Plus the time it takes to make a very optimal ht is money down the drain for them due to making small margins and trying to sell as many as they can.

But yes in China for most products if you pay for it, they can make good stuff. Though that's hard to find and qc and quality materials is hard to find unless provided. I've seen a few great products from China but they are as expensive as anything else. Ade elsewhere at the same quality.
 
You cannot trust low end Chinese knives labeled as D2. Several people have tested these supposed D2 labeled blades on the lower end Chinese cloners to be tested and shown to be 440C. I have seen both physical rust tests and metallurgical analysis showing many of them as 440 not D2.

I'm still trying to find the link to the guy who did the metallurgical testing.

but here is one doing a rust test, and the supposed D2 is obviously 440 when compared to an actual D2 steel blade.

This picture also "tells" the story
 
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