Why D2

dirc said:
Actually, even good (genuine) D2 is NOT very tough. It's actually one of the weakest steels in terms of toughness. What it is good at is edge retention, which is very different.
I would NOT use D2 in any sort of bushcraft scenario.
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As someone who regularly does bushcrafty type of stuff, D2 is rarely a steel used and I personally do not own a blade in this steel. They are all some type of high carbon steel with my main outdoor knife being 1095. But I do not see anything wrong with 1095 as a blade steel. You'll find some knife snobs who are convinced if it's not some specialty designer steel from Sweden then it's crap, but I've never had a problem with it, nor have I had issued with corrosion simply by utilizing some basic maintenance.
 
WillB said:
That seems overly generalized. Has anyone who has used a good D2 knife designed for bushcraft here ever had one fail? Seems makers and uses choose D2 for that all the time, and they appear to hold up very well. Does it not come down to the balance of hardness developed by the HT?
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Like I just posted above, I use Kabars that are in 1095 and never had a single issue with sharpness or edge retention, or even corrosion for that matter. Is D2 enough better than 1095? If it is, then it's by no metric measurable to me.
 
1095 is quite a bit tougher than D2. I'm not saying all D2 bushcraft blades will fail. If the designers/bladesmiths are good, they would keep geometry of the edge thicker to account for it's weaknesses and you're probably good to go. Just don't go chopping hardwood in freezing temps ; )
 
jason41987 said:
Like I just posted above, I use Kabars that are in 1095 and never had a single issue with sharpness or edge retention, or even corrosion for that matter. Is D2 enough better than 1095? If it is, then it's by no metric measurable to me.
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I'd add that I read various places how people should not use s30v for survival/bush craft cuz it "would shatter into pieces if pushed hard" and was so ultra chippy, and so forth, and that didn't appear to be the case at all in real world use with quality makers. Has anyone actually posted a legit failure of say a quality D2 or s30v here over the years? I have been a member on and off for a long time, and can't recall it, but that does not mean it didn't happen. I'm not an expert here, but while D2 (and or s30v) may not be the ideal choice (for sake of argument), "I would NOT use D2 in any sort of bushcraft scenario" seems ridiculous statement to me.
 
jason41987 said:
Like I just posted above, I use Kabars that are in 1095 and never had a single issue with sharpness or edge retention, or even corrosion for that matter. Is D2 enough better than 1095? If it is, then it's by no metric measurable to me.
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As they say, "different strokes for different folks." I've used 1095 and D2 myself for years and I would rather have D2. It has better edgeholding, better rust resistance, and about the same toughness as 1095. It is a little harder to sharpen but worth the trade off in my opinion. To each their own as "they" say.

 
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This is exactly why D2 remains such a popular steel. The outstanding edge retention, decent rust resistance and overall low cost make it a good compromise in many designs.
The HT developed by Dozier for D2 (and others) is excellent, if combined with intelligent geometry for the application.

My preference to not use D2 in bushcraft scenarios has a plethora of reasons, (one being I'm Canadian, and I go hiking often in freezing temps) and because I would rather give up some edge retention to gain toughness. My current outdoor fixed blade uses 14c28n, I'm really a fan of Sandvik steels in general.

** edited to add ** that 'chart' is non-scientific really, the 'toughness' numbers are not really co-related to the actual charpy test results. They are a very rough 0-10 ranking that is at best 'relative' to others on the list. Perfect example is somehow 1050 and 1060 have different corrosion results despite both having no chrome (or nitrogen). There simply is no basis. The total's thus have nothing to do with reality in a real sense. @Larrin did a great write up if you want to read more.

toughness-summary.jpg


https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/09/03/ranking-the-steel-ranking-articles/

READ THIS ^^
 
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vwb563 said:
As they say, "different strokes for different folks." I've used 1095 and D2 myself for years and I would rather have D2. It has better edgeholding, better rust resistance, and about the same toughness as 1095. It is a little harder to sharpen but worth the trade off in my opinion. To each their own as "they" say.

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I am curious as to how this chart is calculated. 420HC and AUS8 better than 154CM?
 
Mo2 said:
Several Chinese factories will not use actual d2 or variations of d2. Only the major top brands use k110 D2. Alot of the others will label d2 but will be 8cr13mov etc like efangrow etc.
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Who/what is your authoritative source for this claim?
In what trade journal(s) has this "information" been confirmed as fact, by testing multipul samples, including chemical analysis, and published in?

If you have an authoritative, unbiased source, please tell us who it is.

I'm sorry, but this claim sounds like something an anti-Chinese only buy American bigot on YouTube that has less than NO clue what he's talking about, would spew.
 
afishhunter said:
Who/what is your authoritative source for this claim?
In what trade journal(s) has this "information" been confirmed as fact, by testing multipul samples, including chemical analysis, and published in?

If you have an authoritative, unbiased source, please tell us who it is.

I'm sorry, but this claim sounds like something an anti-Chinese only buy American bigot on YouTube that has less than NO clue what he's talking about, would spew.
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Are you kidding? I buy reputable Chinese knives and it's well known that non reputable Chinese companies will fake steel and it's been proven many times with tests. You obviously are new to this. Dont be naive about this topic. I'm not anti Chinese at all. I'm anti scam. If you look at aliexpress and dhgate it's common practice there.

Alot of people get ahold of a xrf gun or send there knives to a place that can do it
https://www.bruker.com/products/x-ray-diffraction-and-elemental-analysis/handheld-xrf.html

Its been done by members here and on other social media. It's really not hard and nothing new.

Check out Kurt's testing. He's got an xrf gun and an hrc tester at his place of work.
https://instagram.com/jcoolg19?utm_source=ig_profile_share&igshid=1kjmfz52fhp28

Look at the spread sheet compiled with the information.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OepNr_D4lqbdTFqdqWl1rmAd4bOzPzJe6J0iEWrdJGU/htmlview
 
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vwb563 said:
Here's the whole article.

https://www.trekwarrior.com/best-knife-steel-carbon-vs-stainless-blades/
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Truthfully if this chart is remotely accurate, given how well 1095 blades have served me, I just completely lost any and all interest I may have had in these "super steels." I am quite content with what I've been using up till now that I do not think I'll ever buy something in VG-10, 154CM, S35VN, etc.

Corrosion resistance is of absolutely no concern to me. A little maintenance solves that problem, and that aside it would seem 1095 actually balances quite fairly with some of the better steels. I wonder how other carbon steels like 52100 and M4 compare on that chart.
 
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For the record, you will notice most people who complain about knives made in china are some how connected to overpriced sky high overcharging American knife companies. They try to shame you into buying their overpriced products Beware.
 
WillB said:
I'd add that I read various places how people should not use s30v for survival/bush craft cuz it "would shatter into pieces if pushed hard" and was so ultra chippy, and so forth, and that didn't appear to be the case at all in real world use with quality makers. Has anyone actually posted a legit failure of say a quality D2 or s30v here over the years? I have been a member on and off for a long time, and can't recall it, but that does not mean it didn't happen. I'm not an expert here, but while D2 (and or s30v) may not be the ideal choice (for sake of argument), "I would NOT use D2 in any sort of bushcraft scenario" seems ridiculous statement to me.
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Very true imo. I've been hammering on a slab of s30v for years. The BM 162. I've had a few tiny chips, but I mean tiny. I'm also smart enough not to put a super refined edge on it. Just sharp enough is all that's required. I also live in New England so it is used in the cold. Nothing wrong with that steel. To be honest I like just about any blade steel. Can't say I've ever found one were I found it to be junk. I'm not sure what people are doing with knives to find any modern steel to be junk, I just don't see it.
 
Trake22 said:
For the record, you will notice most people who complain about knives made in china are some how connected to overpriced sky high overcharging American knife companies. They try to shame you into buying their overpriced products Beware.
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Great first post... not
 
WillB said:
That seems overly generalized. Has anyone who has used a good D2 knife designed for bushcraft here ever had one fail? Seems makers and uses choose D2 for that all the time, and they appear to hold up very well. Does it not come down to the balance of hardness developed by the HT?
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Agreed. LT has a few models in D2, or used to, that did well for that type of use as did Ontario. I really enjoyed the TAK 1 in D2 for a while but I ended up getting a custom made in CPM-M4 for camp use instead so the TAK 1 just sat.

If a knife is built right and HT is good, I think toughness is often over-rated as a need unless chopping is a requirement. However, having a very tough knife can be very fun as you can beat the crap out of them without as much worry. But, using a knife for a knife and toughness generally isn't a problem, given good geometry and all that.
 
Trake22 said:
For the record, you will notice most people who complain about knives made in china are some how connected to overpriced sky high overcharging American knife companies. They try to shame you into buying their overpriced products Beware.
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Did you know if you look at the HTML you can see the IP Address of the poster? I'm pretty sure that your IP Block is located in Shanghai.


:p
 
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Trake22 said:
For the record, you will notice most people who complain about knives made in china are some how connected to overpriced sky high overcharging American knife companies. They try to shame you into buying their overpriced products Beware.
Click to expand...

This is incorrect.

Knives made in China can be quite good. The means by which some Chinese companies achieve sales is not always conducive to integrity. *Read IP theft*. There are other factors as well.

China’s exported goods are subject to zero percent value added tax (VAT), while the US is not.

Manufacturers in the West are expected to comply with certain basic guidelines with regards to child labor, involuntary labor, health and safety norms, wage and hour laws, and protection of the environment. Chinese factories are known for not following most of these laws and guidelines, even in a permissive regulatory environment. (Copied from Investopedia).

There are several other factors in play. And there is no shame in supporting a company that does play by the rules and supports their customers. Plus the whole...support your local economy thing...

Just my opinion.


Welcome to BladeForums!
 
Is Eafengrow really that bad? I have bought a couple of them as gifts for non-knife people who might only use them to trim a string off something or cut the occasional piece of packing tape. The main selling point was that they looked pretty and were relatively cheap. Cloning issues aside, is their steel really trash? (At least, when compared to $20-30 budget knives in 8Cr14Mov, etc.)
 
If you want something cheap and not made in China for "casual" knife users there are plenty of great non Chinese options. Give them a Kabar Dozier (Taiwan), Buck 110 or 112 Slim (US made), A Kershaw Link (US made), Opinel (French). There are a lot of good options that aren't China. Specifically avoiding China, I just purchased and received an Ontario Rat 1 in D2 for $40.

Speaking specifically of D2, does a "casual" knife user need it? Of course not. Aus-8 and Bucks 420HC is plenty.
 
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