Why did Benchmade drop the Doug Ritter knife?

solman

solman

Joined
Nov 19, 2014
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180
I was wondering why Benchmade would drop a successful design and probably a good seller for them?
Also how does the Hogue Ritter compare to the Benchmade version?
I know the axis lock patent expired and Hogue seems to have ripped it off. I always thought you could extend a patent but I guess maybe not.
 
Hogue makes it now. I’m not sure why Benchmade dropped it but Ritter went to Hogue for production.
 
Entirely my speculation, but I think with the new models, especially the Bugout and Freek (very similar in profile to the RSK IMO) taking up production time they had to pull capacity from somewhere. So they did so from the H&K lines initially and later from the RSK lines (for which they were effectively just the the OEM). After all why continue to make things that compete with in house designs, which probably hold higher margins.

However, I believe H&K and Doug (not BM) retained the rights to the designs, which is why they both are still in production... both under Hogue interestingly enough. Those design rights, coupled with the expiry of the Axis patent is why Hogue is making the designs now.

As of 1995, 20 years is the maximum term for a patent( it used to be shorter). Trademarks, however are basically indefinite(10yr, renewable), so long as you actively use it...and make all efforts to defend them...if you don't there are grounds for the free use of undefended/abandoned trademarks. Which is why they don't name it an Axis lock (and other similar mechanisms are all called something else).

Patent extensions generally seem to only apply in cases when an undue about of time passes between filing for and the issuance of a patent (Prior to 1995 patent expiry time was determined from time of issuance, after 1995 it is determined from time of filing). There are also some provisions for when patents conflict in various ways that are pretty convoluted lol...(most of the court cases in this area seem to involve pharmaceuticals).

I really like the Hogue RSK, with small but notable upgrades to the BM ones, mainly G10 and seemingly to me better springs (US made by the same company that makes the springs for their autos). And Hogue's grinds are generally IMO better than BMs, very even with near polished edges.
 
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Im a big benchmade fan and have defended them a lot lately. That said, hogue makes an outstanding knife, and i cant wait to see what how their axis(able lol) lock performs. Basically now hogue gets to make a superior griptilian IMO...how thats gonna be good for benchmade is beyond me, but was their decision to cancel it.
 
One thing that people forget with this Benchmade, Ritter, and Hogue controversy is that the design of the griptilian is Pardue. I wonder how they feel about Hogue and Doug making their design...
 
craytab said:
One thing that people forget with this Benchmade, Ritter, and Hogue controversy is that the design of the griptilian is Pardue. I wonder how they feel about Hogue and Doug making their design...
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I suspect since they sold that design to Benchmade they have no claim or right to it. I know if I were them, I would feel that it was BMs to do what they pleased with it.

Hopefully they get a residual, in which case they might have a claim with Hogue(?). The Hogue handle is more angular than that of the Griptilian, so to me there is no mistaking one for the other, an idea that is often at the heart of design infringement cases, but that is my opinion.

In earlier descriptions of the gestation of the RSK, Doug describes working with BM to produce his blade shape on "their" Griptilian platform. This indicates to me the while the design work was done by and is credited to Pardue, they have no actual ownership or rights to it, as it was wholly sold to BM. So any of Pardue's feelings (existent or not) on this is any are probably legally moot, and IF(caveat) it is true that the design was wholly sold, one in a long list of history's times when someone got the short end of the stick, if only by accident/lack of foresight by a party (Lucas got the merch rights to Star Wars cause who would buy toys!?)

How Doug retained the rights to the specific RSK design is frankly beyond me.
 
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I love my BM Ritter griptilian, the S30V seems to be easier to sharpen and hold a better edge than the cpm m4 that benchmade put out with the carbon fiber grip. my dream is to have the full size cpm m4 ritter drop point with the dlc coating and carbon grips. for now i'll settle with my carbon BM grips onto my ritter s30v or hogue m390 blade. I recently bought the hogue in m390 and i'm happy with it, it's a new blade to swap with though i'm not 100% sure it will fit now that i've read some of your comments, haha. Anyone interested in selling a full size cpm m4 ritter blade with the dlc coating?
 
If I remember correctly, I think the Benchmade reps wanted to consolidate their production under just the Benchmade brand. They dropped the H&K and Ritter branded lines around the same time, so now everything they produce says Benchmade on the front of the blade.

It may have solely been a branding decision, or it may have been because of slower sales, I doubt any of us outside the company will ever really know.
 
Lacking the interest to track down a press release, I do at least recall the Hogue RSK’s product description mentioning that Benchmade wanted to restructure their lineup and dropped Ritter and H&K. Interestingly, Benchmade continued making the H&K auto designs under a different name and effectively only dropped the folders.

I’m unsure as to where I stand on the Pardue ownership of the handles. Given that I have heard nothing from any of the parties involved, I get the feeling it’s not something anyone is interested in starting a fight over - which, given how litigious and petty people in the knife world can be, is honestly somewhat surprising.

In regards to craftmanship, Hogue is excellent. I have handled just under a dozen Hogue knives and the only one in non-perfect mechanical shape was one I got used. Their autos are good, their folders are good, and my only gripe is that they consistently overengineer pocket clips and tend to make them either unnecessarily complicated (see: EX-02’s clip with barrel spacers), uncomfortable (common complaint with the RSK and the X5), or ugly (EX01, EX03, arguably X5)
 
KAEDC said:
I suspect since they sold that design to Benchmade they have no claim or right to it. I know if I were them, I would feel that it was BMs to do what they pleased with it.

Hopefully they get a residual, in which case they might have a claim with Hogue(?). The Hogue handle is more angular than that of the Griptilian, so to me there is no mistaking one for the other, an idea that is often at the heart of design infringement cases, but that is my opinion.

In earlier descriptions of the gestation of the RSK, Doug describes working with BM to produce his blade shape on "their" Griptilian platform. This indicates to me the while the design work was done by and is credited to Pardue, they have no actual ownership or rights to it, as it was wholly sold to BM. So any of Pardue's feelings (existent or not) on this is any are probably legally moot, and IF(caveat) it is true that the design was wholly sold, one in a long list of history's times when someone got the short end of the stick, if only by accident/lack of foresight by a party (Lucas got the merch rights to Star Wars cause who would buy toys!?)

How Doug retained the rights to the specific RSK design is frankly beyond me.
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And we will likely never know the background goings on.

What I do know is that the Hogue Ritter knife is a direct copy of other people's work. Legalities aside, that is something to consider.
 
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craytab said:
And we will likely never no the background goings on.

What I do know is that the Hogue Ritter knife is a direct copy of other people's work. Legalities aside, that is something to consider.
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Disagree, as the grip is a licensed design it’s use...the question is the extent of that license...by my understanding of your position on the Pardue design element the RSK as a whole is a copy regardless of the manufacturer, which I don’t think is what you are saying...
 
I also think that since the RSK helps to support Doug’s Knife Rights work, by allowing himbthe financial leway to concentrate on the foundation, ( which all manufactures/makers/designers benefit for is some manner), it quite possible that tacit consent is simply the easiest way for all parties to deal with the situation.
 
KAEDC said:
Disagree, as the grip is a licensed design it’s use...the question is the extent of that license...by my understanding of your position on the Pardue design element the RSK as a whole is a copy regardless of the manufacturer, which I don’t think is what you are saying...
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There is no mistaking that the hogue is a griptilian that has distinct attributes that neither hogue or Doug designed. Hopefully all parties are amicably satisfied, though I haven't heard one way or the other. Perhaps you have some knowledge on the subject?
 
craytab said:
There is no mistaking that the hogue is a griptilian that has distinct attributes that neither hogue or Doug designed. Hopefully all parties are amicably satisfied, though I haven't heard one way or the other. Perhaps you have some knowledge on the subject?
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I disagree that it is a Griptilian, its an RSK, BM never (to my knowledge) called a the RSK a grip either, I believe that was solely a consumer term, based on the handle. Which I already have said I believe the Hogue to be visually distinct enough that the two can't be conflated, but I'm not going to say that they aren't similar.

That last question is pretty combative i think, I haven't said anything that I didn't say was me expressing anything more than opinion, so I apologize if it came off as such

Ultimately I think that this is simply an agree to disagree, I don't see the Hogue as a copy, while you do, and have made clear that is your position in most threads I have seen asking about the Hogue RSK. It seems to me nothing short of Pardue saying he blesses the RSK will satisfy you. I understand your position, and it is valid, but in the information vacuum, I believe mine is just as valid.

Regardless of the copy issues or not, I do think objectively the Hogue RSK, is superior to the BM iterations.
 
KAEDC said:
I disagree that it is a Griptilian, its an RSK, BM never (to my knowledge) called a the RSK a grip either, I believe that was solely a consumer term, based on the handle. Which I already have said I believe the Hogue to be visually distinct enough that the two can't be conflated, but I'm not going to say that they aren't similar.

That last question is pretty combative i think, I haven't said anything that I didn't say was me expressing anything more than opinion, so I apologize if it came off as such

Ultimately I think that this is simply an agree to disagree, I don't see the Hogue as a copy, while you do, and have made clear that is your position in most threads I have seen asking about the Hogue RSK. It seems to me nothing short of Pardue saying he blesses the RSK will satisfy you. I understand your position, and it is valid, but in the information vacuum, I believe mine is just as valid.

Regardless of the copy issues or not, I do think objectively the Hogue RSK, is superior to the BM iterations.
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I'm sorry if the question sounded combative. I'm seriously curious if there are other sources of information on this. I'd really hope that the Pardue's are fine with this. I just thought you might know.

As it stands, with no further information, this is a copied knife in my book, on more than one level. We shun ganzo for doing the same thing but this gets a pass. I think this has crossed a similar line, unless there is more to the story.
 
craytab said:
One thing that people forget with this Benchmade, Ritter, and Hogue controversy is that the design of the griptilian is Pardue. I wonder how they feel about Hogue and Doug making their design...
Click to expand...

I learned several years ago at my local knife store that Mel Pardue had visited recently that he was no longer receiving royalties from Benchmade.

When Benchmade surprised Ritter by dropping his line, and then produced a very similar knife, it seemed very possible that he was cut out to increase the royalties on a very fine knife which was reasonably priced. Of course the Freek is more expensive, and with no split for Ritter, this may be a good business move. Maybe. Hmm.

I haven t bought a Benchmade since the Ritter Grip.
 
Hey,at least its not faked and sold on ali express for 50.00; at least its made in the U.S. by a reputable maker.I don't think theres anything to complain about...
 
craytab said:
One thing that people forget with this Benchmade, Ritter, and Hogue controversy is that the design of the griptilian is Pardue. I wonder how they feel about Hogue and Doug making their design...
Click to expand...

There was a long thread about the Ritter Grip and someone mentioned the same thing. Mr Ritter mentioned that Mr. Pardue is a friend and just fine with it.
 
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