Why does Victorinox play hard to get with the perfect SAK?

[Hickory n steel]

I can understand not liking cellidor if one broke on you, but I've had zero issues with it breaking and probably never will.
My only issue was a Swiss card light that cracked in my wallet.
It went through the washer and dryer a few times and encountered a few years of me plopping my bony ass down in a chair, I don't think even nylon would've stood up to that and alox would've bent or crushed.

 

[bozhidar47]

I have eight SAKS, none the same.
Each one is the perfect SAK for me whenever I pick it up and use it!

My newest SAK is extra perfect. It is the 91mm Super Tinker. The "beyond perfect" characteristic is that my Tinker's handles are dressed in the red, white and blue USA Flag.

If/when a ninth SAK joins this small collection, it will be another perfect choice.
Have a great day!
Bozhidar

 

[Frailer]

As someone who has carried a SAK every day for over 30 years and who owns dozens of different models (including custom mods), I’ve reached the conclusion that not only does the “perfect” SAK not exist, but the very idea of such a thing runs contrary to the philosophy of the SAK.

The SAK is, by its very nature, a compromise. They are the tool of choice when the “proper” tool for the job isn’t at hand. The joy of using a SAK comes when one is able to solve a problem using nothing but one’s own ingenuity and the contents of one’s pockets.

The mighty Swiss Army Knife is all about “good enough,” and as we all know, perfection is the enemy of good enough.

 

[deltaboy]

I love all my SAKS

 

[Enkrig]

Maybe, just maybe, it's time for a few of you to realize we knife knuts are NOT the Victorinox target market. Their market is the 99.9% of the world that knows nothing about knives. The people who don't care about durable scales because they're probably going to lose the knife before it breaks anyway. The people who prefer shiny handles and blades to performance.

You make a very good point... That said, they have special editions and yearly runs in special colors. Who else other than "the knife nuts" buys those? If there is a market large enough for those special editions, would there be a market for "tricked up" versions of their knives with, for example, micarta or G10 scales?

I have eight SAKS, none the same.
Each one is the perfect SAK for me whenever I pick it up and use it!

Very true. The right SAK should match the occasion. Personally I find it hard to carry a SAK with more than 3 layers for EDC, but my 4 layers Huntsman is perfect for short hikes and walkabouts in which the saw blade often comes handy.

As someone who has carried a SAK every day for over 30 years and who owns dozens of different models (including custom mods), I’ve reached the conclusion that not only does the “perfect” SAK not exist, but the very idea of such a thing runs contrary to the philosophy of the SAK.

The SAK is, by its very nature, a compromise. They are the tool of choice when the “proper” tool for the job isn’t at hand. The joy of using a SAK comes when one is able to solve a problem using nothing but one’s own ingenuity and the contents of one’s pockets.

The mighty Swiss Army Knife is all about “good enough,” and as we all know, perfection is the enemy of good enough.

This is so true. Couldn't agree more. Perhaps also the reason why it was the tool that best matched the whole MacGyverism persona...

 

[Frailer]

Maybe, just maybe, it's time for a few of you to realize we knife knuts are NOT the Victorinox target market. Their market is the 99.9% of the world that knows nothing about knives...

From what I see on the Internet “knife knuts” seem to be primarily concerned with how many linear feet of cardboard their three-figure folder will cut before they have to pay somebody to sharpen it for them.

I’m certainly no knife expert, but ditching my high-dollar handmade sheath knife back in 1986 and replacing it with a Victorinox Huntsman was one of the smartest moves I ever made. That knife and its successors have served me well...removing cactus spines from my knee, repairing a ruptured HMMWV coolant hose in the middle of a godforsaken desert, spreading peanut butter, etc. Even that too shiny, too soft, sharpen-on-the-bottom-of-a-coffee-cup, truly rostfrei blade came in handy for cutting something once or twice.

Drop me off in the middle of nowhere and give me the option of a cheap-ass cellidor Huntsman or a custom supersteel-equipped modern folder, and I know what I’m choosing.

Fortunately, I know nothing about knives. Except, of course, what I need one for.

 

[22-rimfire]

...I’m certainly no knife expert, but ditching my high-dollar handmade sheath knife back in 1986 and replacing it with a Victorinox Huntsman was one of the smartest moves I ever made. That knife and its successors have served me well...removing cactus spines from my knee, repairing a ruptured HMMWV coolant hose in the middle of a godforsaken desert, spreading peanut butter, etc. Even that too shiny, too soft, sharpen-on-the-bottom-of-a-coffee-cup, truly rostfrei blade came in handy for cutting something once or twice.

I sort of went in the opposite direction. I got my first SAK (a Tinker) in the early 80's and other than a few short stints with other folders, I have always carried one since. In the mid-80's, I didn't even own a fixed bladed knife other than kitchen knives. I never could see how I needed one beyond an occasional need camping. But I in fact have purchased more than a couple fixed blades starting around 1990 (some pretty good, others so so). But I have re-learned that I seldom ever need a fixed blade for anything and the only reason I carry one in the woods is for fun and emergencies. SAKs rule! I carry two folders now normally....a modern and a SAK. The modern actually cuts better (typically sharper), but it is mostly there because I like knives.

 

[mushka]

I am brand new to Blade Forums but I have found it the most interesting board I have the pleasure of visiting. My favorite SAK is the Centurian, the older one without the serrated blade. I hate serrated blades. Carried this knife for about twelve years now in a belt case that Benchmade puts out, perfect fit. Cloth case with Velcro flap, holds really close to the belt. I have about a dozen SAK's. Keep them in glove boxes, tackle boxes, camp boxes, bedside. I like the SAK's and had no problems with them. My Centurian has been excellent for everything from carving, trimming, use at restaraunts that have crummy knives, cleaning game and fish, and the occasional screw that loosens. Perfect size knife for my edc.

 

[Stelth]

I haven't bought a celidor SAK since the late 80s. Since that time I have purchased about 15 alox and nylon handled ones. I agree that celidor is inferior but I believe that Victorinox doesn't care about the opinions of fanatics like us.

 

[tiguy7]

I just finished swapping the scales of a skeletonized Tinker with the solid scales of a custom Waiter. I am happy with results but might add a pocket clip to the Franken Waiter.

 

[TheMikeOfSteel]

I would love the ability to create an “official” custom SAK. Something where Victorinox would have a website where you select layers, tools, scale color etc...

 

[Harayasu]

I don't mind the cellidor actually, never had problems with it, and I really wouldn't know how my perfect SAK would look like. For EDC, the Climber provides the tools I use on a daily basis and a couple of tools that I rarely use, but that's fine with me.

And as a knife nut, I have bag of SAKs anyway. Going hiking or camping in the woods? There are the Farmer, Huntsman or the Trailmaster. Want to go lightweight? There are the Classic, the Pocket Pal or the alox Bantam.

One other thing. Most of the non-knife people I know who do carry a knife, carry a Victorinox Classic. I don't exactly know how non-knife people choose a knife, but I guess it goes like this:
1. They regularly need 'some tool' and get annoyed that they don't have it.
2. They start looking around for 'a knife' (for non-knife people a multitool is also 'a knife').
3. After exploring the options their favourite webshops provide, they buy a Victorinox Classic.

So, maybe Victorinox already created the perfect SAK? Just not for knife nuts, but for most other people?

 

[bt93]

It has taken years, but I've come to realize there is a vast corporate conspiracy to not create the perfect set of SAKs. And everyone is in on it, even the janitor cleaning the floors at their HQ!

There's simply no other explanation why the following models/improvements never materialize!

1) polished micarta scales in color that's pantone matched to the iconic plastic scales. And yes, they devote the measly 30 seconds to machine out channels for scale tools! Same goes for Alox, a fraction of a millimeter in thickness plus a one tool/one setup operation on a mill to have scale tools! And for backside tools!

2) 84 mm model scissors. Oh what, a machine broke? GO FIX IT NOW! Or buy new! You have all the right revenue & people to do exactly that! This is where my suspicions about all this really began to cross my mind.

3) do some market research, vis-a-vis corckscrew vs phillips head. This can be a particular aspect where you think you've judiciously narrowed down to the right SAK for you but there's that feeling of being subtly plaid like a fool because that new knife has a corckscrew or has a Phillips and you would have preferred the opposite... "B-b-but, all the other tools were what I wanted!" Just give us the option.

3) 84mm & 91/93mm , Alox or previously mentioned micarta, knife + combo tool, scissors, back side Phillips & awl (with hole and nail filing back side of awl shank.) All models get the pen, pin, tweezers, toothpick treatment here.

4) built in provision for a pocket clip. I'm not saying a big chunky pocket needs to be milled out of the scales for attachment, there are ways to do it quite nicely!

Just DO IT!!

...or I will, one day.

Okay, so I'll take this point by point.
1.Vic does offer some limited edition models in wood, then there's Alox also. Not too many companies offer micarta. I don't remember the last time I saw a Case with Micarta. Anyway, I've always had cellidor myself, as I like to have my toothpick and tweezers handy. Don't know it that could be possible with micarta.
2. Haven't used an 84mm scissors, so if you say it's better, I'll take your word for it. The 91mm scissors work great for me so haven't had any sense of needing improvement.
3.I always prefer the corkscrew as I have found the canopener screwdriver works as a philips. The knives that I've had that had the back side phillips, I just found those weren't much more usefull than the can opener screwdriver and I think on the SAK that had one, I only used the back side phillips about twice over a couple of years, and 1 of those times the head on the screw got stripped.
I understand the Mall of America in Minnesota has a custom Vic shop, if you ever get there, they'll put together a knife with the exact tools that you want.
4. I have a pocket clip on my OHO, it makes sense for that. A SAK isn't OHO. If you have so much crap in your pocket that you can't get to your SAK, then maybe put the SAK in a different pocket.
Vic does offer a pocket clip that hooks on to the SAK key ring with a small chain. Looks handy and I'm sure it'd do what you want a regular pocket clip to do.
Finally you say if Vic won't do it, you will. As mentioned earlier, go to Mall of America and go ahead and do it.

 

[afishhunter]

I've never had a problem with cellidor, even when I dropped it.

Key ring "on the wrong end" of the Classic:
Yes, the blade does open towards the keys.
I keep my Signature (a Classic with an ink pen instead of the toothpick) on a carabiner. Take it off the carabiner, use it, put it back on. Honestly though, on the Signature, my most used tools are the pen and scissors. I have other knives to use when I need a blade.

My most carried SAK's are the Signature and a Huntsman. Both with the translucent red covers. Over the last 10 or 12 years that I've carried them, the cellidor has gotten scratched up. So? What difference does it make? I'm not trying to impress anyone with "Look how pretty my knife is..." when I use them.
ANY knife constantly carried and used for for an appriciable amount of time is going to show pocket wear, no matter who made it or what the handle material is. Even my issued to me in 1975 Western made Camillus 1760 "Demo" knife has scratches on the stainless steel handle, after 20 or 25 years of carry.
I don't have one, but I've seen plenty of photos here of well loved Alox models that the anodizing has been worn off of.

If one of my cellidor covers ever breaks, I can get a replacement for around $6, or upgrade to nylon or metal for a little more.
Either way, replacement covers cost a lot less than replacing the knife.

 

[batosai117]

They do make the perfect combination of SAK. It’s the Swiss Champ

 

[Sos24]

I would love the ability to create an “official” custom SAK. Something where Victorinox would have a website where you select layers, tools, scale color etc...

This would be awesome.

 

[PirateSeulb]

1) polished micarta scales in color that's pantone matched to the iconic plastic scales. And yes, they devote the measly 30 seconds to machine out channels for scale tools! Same goes for Alox, a fraction of a millimeter in thickness plus a one tool/one setup operation on a mill to have scale tools! And for backside tools!

Funny thing I prefer the Alox in part becuase they lack the toothpick and tweezer tools. I find those tweezers to be ineffective at doing anything I use tweezers for and the toothpick besides as a toothpick not sure what I would need it for and I prefer disposable toothpicks. Those two tools are absolutely useless to me.

2) 84 mm model scissors. Oh what, a machine broke? GO FIX IT NOW! Or buy new! You have all the right revenue & people to do exactly that! This is where my suspicions about all this really began to cross my mind.

Another tool I never really use but will accept they can be useful but again I kinda like when it is absent.

3) do some market research, vis-a-vis corckscrew vs phillips head. This can be a particular aspect where you think you've judiciously narrowed down to the right SAK for you but there's that feeling of being subtly plaid like a fool because that new knife has a corckscrew or has a Phillips and you would have preferred the opposite... "B-b-but, all the other tools were what I wanted!" Just give us the option.

I'm good with this but for me the corkscrew it out unless it is a picnic knife so I know which option I would choose.

3) 84mm & 91/93mm , Alox or previously mentioned micarta, knife + combo tool, scissors, back side Phillips & awl (with hole and nail filing back side of awl shank.) All models get the pen, pin, tweezers, toothpick treatment here.

I think this goes back to #1 I would dump the toothpick and tweezers from all models but its fine if leave them with the normal scales.

4) built in provision for a pocket clip. I'm not saying a big chunky pocket needs to be milled out of the scales for attachment, there are ways to do it quite nicely!

I think it would depend on the size the large SAK and up to a certain thickness a clip option/mounting point would be good but the smaller models just fit perfectly down in the pockets.

 

[greyling]

I'd settle for them just using a better steel

 

[Etna]

I find those tweezers to be ineffective at doing anything I use tweezers for and the toothpick besides as a toothpick not sure what I would need it for and I prefer disposable toothpicks. Those two tools are absolutely useless to me.

During my conscription, the tweezers saw a lot of use. Mainly from pulling out tree splinters from my pants to removing bee stingers from a fellow conscript's leg. So I will want it there at all times.

 

[22-rimfire]

I also find the tweezers to be very useful when you need a tweezers away from home. Of course, I would rather have something larger and a pointy tweezers, but SAKs are about compromise to a large degree. I carry a little Bantam when I carry a large slippie traditional for the tweezers primarily. Tooth picks come in handy for various poking roles.

A number of years ago, the big "Rough Rider" knife store had the Vic sales people there (their manufacturer's days each fall). If you bought a SAK, they would make you a Spartan or allow you to make a Spartan. However the only choice was either black or red cellidor scales. But it was free. I think a big knife store like this could utilize a semi-custom Vic section.