Why is a good grip a low end feature and not a high end feature?

bdjansen

bdjansen

Joined
Jun 11, 2011
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88
It seems like the more expensive knives get, the harder it is to hold on to them. I’ve got a Kershaw Blur and PM2 that have a great grip. I’ve bought two ZTs lately that are great knives, but one has carbon fiber scales and one has titanium. They’re slick. I haven’t dropped them but I really prefer the way the Blur and PM2 stick to my hands. A lot of nicer knives I look at have slick handles too but I want something nicer then a Griptillian or a plastic Link.
 
Well I wouldnt say thats the case all the time, but I know what youre saying. I think its because a smooth knife feels "nicer" than rough g10. Just like a silk shirt has a more luxurious feel than a burlap sack. Plus on the low end of price people are more likely to use their knife hard and need grip, where as most people arent abusing their sebenza. They dont need a rough handle that shreds hands and pockets.
 
Those who are primarily interested in a hard working , functional cutting tool that requires a really good grip don't necessarily want to spend a lot . Working knives commonly get damaged , lost or stolen .

Whereas many "high end" expensive knives seem to be more for art , status , bling , fondling ,fidgeting , collecting etc than hard work . So a nice smooth handle is preferable .
 
bdjansen said:
It seems like the more expensive knives get, the harder it is to hold on to them. I’ve got a Kershaw Blur and PM2 that have a great grip. I’ve bought two ZTs lately that are great knives, but one has carbon fiber scales and one has titanium. They’re slick. I haven’t dropped them but I really prefer the way the Blur and PM2 stick to my hands. A lot of nicer knives I look at have slick handles too but I want something nicer then a Griptillian or a plastic Link.
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EXACTLY !
Bless you for saying this !
What do I know; I bang the table all the time for a decent handle on a folder.
I would go further though : Shape is important besides just traction / texture.
Three knives that pretty much get it right SHAPE wise as well :
Case Trapper
Cold Steel Ti Lite IV
and my latest . . . handle shape and has decent scales added for traction not to mention a pretty serious blade shape for a "Heavy Duty" work knife (get fixed for a real Heavy Duty . . . right ? !) . . . my Kershaw Strobe. I know; not high end at all but it sure is a start design wise. I'm still using the FACTORY edge after a week and a half of daily use. Not the same use I subject my M4 to but not just cutting plastic bags either. I'm rarely this satisfied with a factory edge but it's great as it came to me and it's still sharp !

So where is the Ti frame with high end tool steel version of the Kershaw Strobe ? ? ? ?
That would at least get a glance from you I bet . . . if it were out there.
PS : again this Strobe has textured and sculpted scales over the stainless Frame (not liners; they are a bit too hefty to be called liners).
 
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A lot of people buying high end knives want "premium" materials like carbon fiber and titanium. I would argue neither are a superior handle material except in cost compared to other options out there.

Personally I think Zytel or FRN is more practical and I love it for that. A nice good grip from that with good checking is the start of a good work knife in my opinion. Unfortunately it's viewed as feeling cheap by some, but it will take any abuse you can think of and ask for seconds every time from my experience.
 
All good points.
look at a benchmade freek or mini freek with S30V, which has the rubberised grip. The only downside is doesn't slide in and out of pocket as easy.
mitch
 
Toyota corolla, Lotus Elise. At some point ergonomics become secondary, to the priorities of the designer/maker.
 
bdjansen said:
It seems like the more expensive knives get, the harder it is to hold on to them. I’ve got a Kershaw Blur and PM2 that have a great grip. I’ve bought two ZTs lately that are great knives, but one has carbon fiber scales and one has titanium. They’re slick. I haven’t dropped them but I really prefer the way the Blur and PM2 stick to my hands. A lot of nicer knives I look at have slick handles too but I want something nicer then a Griptillian or a plastic Link.
Click to expand...

The reason cf and ti are so desirable in a knife is, other than being lightweight

CF: extremely long lasting and stable with great ridgidity and strength vs weight

Titanium: even though aluminum is strong enough for a knife’s handle and lighter than Ti, Ti has better spring memory making a better lockbar and it can also be the lockface. I have an aluminum sr1 framelock and the lockbar is stiffer and the lockface has to be steel tipped. Also both metals are extremely non-reactive.

So basically these knives are valuable for the above plus the fact that in 200 years the composite and Ti components will still be around.
 
Some high end knives are great users. Others are show/art/safe knives. You can use them for the most part but not as well as a user. A hinderer for example is a great user, it's high end and they have various embellishments to some of them for those collectors or fans.

ZTs are too thick behind the edge, slick and overall not users. But they are tacticool. They once made user knives Ala 0350. Not that you can't use them. Anything that's been sharpened can be used technically. But they arnt optimal. I learned this first hand using them vs various other brands with better geometry, ergos, grip etc.

Alot of the knife fans want fidget flippers. I do like fidget flippers. But prefer if they are slicers and useful tbo.

My favorite user overall is a CRK sebenza. I've got a variety of models and it's one of my favorite users. The ti models arnt idea but they do have inlay models that help.
Sure it's not the ultimate slicer. They have plenty of embellishments on them too since they have a fan base of collectors.
 
It’s not just about handle material, but shape and finish on the material as well.

My griptilian with FRN handle ride in my pocket for 4 years, and is no where as grippy as it was when new. The checkering has worn down and all the edges have rounded over. I replaced the scales in December with a set of titanium scales with texture machined into them. Those will last considerably longer.

My Bark River Aurora has smooth micarta scales and I honestly find it to slippery. It’d be a perfect knife with a front guard or a deep single finger groove. I rarely use it for much as I see it not really a safe design. Just me.

My Randall has smooth micarta, but has a single finger groove and double guard. I have no concerns about control with the knife for any tasks. However, minus the groove and guard, I would rehandle it. Smooth Micarta is to slick and looks like ass when it is roughed for grip. By far my least favorite material.

My cold steel Recon Tanto has the Pachmayer Zyrtec grips. I’ve had it since 2004 and it has been to Iraq twice and Afghanistan once. It’s is still as grippy as it was when new.

My favorite knife for food chores has a highly polished desert ironwood handle. It is still very grippy even when wet. It is well contoured which is important.

Elephant ivory is very grippy, even when polished to a high grit. Just the nature of the material, and it is a favorite of mine. Warm, grippy, and has proven durable
On my user knife I handled with it, my two IPSC guns, my cowboy action guns, and my edc gun.

So it’s not just the material, the contours and texture matter as well. Checkering is an art in itself and can add a lot of traction to woods and other materials. The reason I shy away from checkering is it will drown out the grain and burl.
 
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bdjansen said:
It seems like the more expensive knives get, the harder it is to hold on to them. I’ve got a Kershaw Blur and PM2 that have a great grip. I’ve bought two ZTs lately that are great knives, but one has carbon fiber scales and one has titanium. They’re slick. I haven’t dropped them but I really prefer the way the Blur and PM2 stick to my hands. A lot of nicer knives I look at have slick handles too but I want something nicer then a Griptillian or a plastic Link.
Click to expand...
I've noticed the same thing as I try to incorporate higher priced knives into my work rotation bdjansen. I also keep falling back on my Kershaw Blur and my Spyderco Delica when I know that I'm going to need extra grip like when my hands will be covered in wire pulling compound. Lately I have been using my Bench Made Bugout with good success but it does seem that the more $ spent the less grip you get.
 
As everyone else said, the higher the price the “better” materials you get. I put “better” in quotations because it’s not always the case for everyone. I like carbon fiber and titanium as much as the next guy, but for knives you’ll be using a lot, there are better options out there. That doesn’t mean that they aren’t good handle materials, they most definitely do have a place in the knife world, just that certain designs are suited for different jobs.
 
Wowbagger said:
EXACTLY !
Bless you for saying this !
What do I know; I bang the table all the time for a decent handle on a folder.
I would go further though : Shape is important besides just traction / texture.
Three knives that pretty much get it right SHAPE wise as well :
Case Trapper
Cold Steel Ti Lite IV
and my latest . . . handle shape and has decent scales added for traction not to mention a pretty serious blade shape for a "Heavy Duty" work knife (get fixed for a real Heavy Duty . . . right ? !) . . . my Kershaw Strobe. I know; not high end at all but it sure is a start design wise. I'm still using the FACTORY edge after a week and a half of daily use. Not the same use I subject my M4 to but not just cutting plastic bags either. I'm rarely this satisfied with a factory edge but it's great as it came to me and it's still sharp !

So where is the Ti frame with high end tool steel version of the Kershaw Strobe ? ? ? ?
That would at least get a glance from you I bet . . . if it were out there.
PS : again this Strobe has textured and sculpted scales over the stainless Frame (not liners; they are a bit too hefty to be called liners).
Click to expand...
Thanks for mentioning the Strobe Wowbagger, It ticks all the boxes for a great work knife for me :):thumbsup:. Cheap, easy to sharpen, and a nice grippy texture scales and looks good too.
 
I think the OP is making a common mistake when it comes to buying "nicer" knives.

He's not seeing the knife in person and handling it before buying. Doing that will do away with a lot of the let down when a box is opened and the knife in question that everyone on the net raved about isn't to taste.
 
mitch13 said:
All good points.
look at a benchmade freek or mini freek with S30V, which has the rubberised grip. The only downside is doesn't slide in and out of pocket as easy.
mitch
Click to expand...
Having lost 3 knives in 2 months on the job I consider that a plus as long as it's not pocket shedding like textured G-10
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Very true. I don't buy metal handled knives or carbon fiber for that very reason. For fixed blades, I'm not a fan of wood or leather stacked handles either. I prefer G10 or micarta. I have no problem with FRN from most companies (like Spyderco).
 
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