Why is paper so bad for knives

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F-22

F-22

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Especially cardboard. What characteristics of paper make it such a "bad" thing to cut?
 
http://www.hut.fi/~wkarlsen/wom poster.pdf

Article on abrasion, wear, ... in paper and pulp factories.

WEAR BEHAVIOR IN COMPONENTS FROMTHE PULP & PAPER INDUSTRYW. Karlsen1, T. Hautala2, T. Tiainen21. Helsinki University of Technology, Laboratory of Engineering Materials, P.O. Box 4200, FIN-02015, TKK, Finland2. Tampere University of Technology, Institute of Materials Science, P.O. Box 589, FIN-33101, Tampere, Finland

Materials research for pulp & paper industry applications has historicaly been driven by theneed for greater corrosion resistance. However, the cost of mechanical degradation of components is also significant, not only because of the direct maintenance-related expenses like milshut-downs, but also because of losses in efficiency and quality. A research effort has been underway in Finland since 1999 addressing pulp & paper wear issues in a drive to reduce thenumber of required maintenance shut-downs of mills, and to increase the durability of components affecting product quality by developing better materials solutions. The evaluation of wearissues has included discussions with key personnel on visits to industry equipment manufactur-ers and numerous Finnish mil sites, as wel as failure analysis studies carried out on worncomponents. The material degradation environments in pulp & paper mil s are complex, andmechanical and chemical roles are often synergistical y intertwined. However, by consideringthe constituents being handled by particular types of components in combination with the scarsobserved in the worn components, some categorization is possible which can aid in the selec-tion of materials and the design of components for particular applications.
 
There are various things added to paper that can be abrasive .First there are the "filled" papers which are the shiny papers used in some magazines .The filler is clay,very abrasive. Corrugated cardboard has glue that holds the layers together.Much of the cardboard has large amounts of sulphur which adds corrosion problems. And of course today much of the paper products are from recycled material so it could contain almost anything.
 
I saw a Discovery special on quarries or something like that; and powdered stone is used in many things including paper and food. They put it on paper for several reasons that I don't remember. Maybe all that rock dust helps dull knives.
 
I strop with cardboard, and toilet paper is tough to cut cleanly without a scary sharp edge.
 
So I guess you could say cutting through paper, or cardboard, is kind of like cutting through fine sandpaper. It has abrasives contained within that are harder than the steel and can scratch and wear your edge.

So they need to come out with some abrasive free paper that has nothing in it that is harder than our blade steels. :) So we can slice through it for testing purposes without harming our perfect edges. :)
 
F-22 :

What characteristics of paper make it such a "bad" thing to cut?
Click to expand...

It isn't in general, take a very sharp decent steel and see how much paper you can cut before the knife starts to tear it, you will be cutting for a very long time. Cardboard blunts the blade much faster (mainly as it is much thicker) but it still takes a very long time. I have done many sessions of cardboard cutting and I frequently stop them because I run out of material. There are various glues and other abrasives in paper and cardboard which make it harder on a blade than meat or clean wood, but if these are the worst substances your knives ever cut you will be sharpening very infrequently.

-Cliff
 
Don´t know exactly, but my prefered test for steel is:

Pampers boxes!:D

They are covered with something different than paper and are stiff.

I guess, to get an impression of steels strength by cutting through it. Different steels shown different results of little chips broke out the edge.

But dulling quick? No. Like Cliff said.
 
Cardboard is 99 percent of what I cut. At work I manage a liquor store, I use my knives to makes card board displays, break down boxes and so on. I do A LOT OF CARD BOARD! The stuff for me is the ultimate test of my different blade steels, especially when we cut dividers because that card board is solid, no corrugations, just solid cardboard stock. It plays hell on harder steel, however when used with something like AUS8, its not so bad. I used to use cold steel knives at work, I recently bought the new CTS XHP from cold steel and wow, it micro chipped like crazy for me at work.
S 30v chips, d2 chips all the good stuff does, however 8cr13mov, 154cm, AUS8a and 14c28n do NOT chip, they roll a little bit, which is a very quick fix. This again exaggerates why I prefer softer steel over "super steel" it bends before it breaks.
Not to say all super steel is bad, it depends on your tasks. AUS8 takes a few quick swipes with a ceramic hone, and about 10 strokes on a strop and shes back to shaving sharp all day.
 
Glytch5 said:
Cardboard is 99 percent of what I cut. At work I manage a liquor store, I use my knives to makes card board displays, break down boxes and so on. I do A LOT OF CARD BOARD! The stuff for me is the ultimate test of my different blade steels, especially when we cut dividers because that card board is solid, no corrugations, just solid cardboard stock. It plays hell on harder steel, however when used with something like AUS8, its not so bad. I used to use cold steel knives at work, I recently bought the new CTS XHP from cold steel and wow, it micro chipped like crazy for me at work.
S 30v chips, d2 chips all the good stuff does, however 8cr13mov, 154cm, AUS8a and 14c28n do NOT chip, they roll a little bit, which is a very quick fix. This again exaggerates why I prefer softer steel over "super steel" it bends before it breaks.
Not to say all super steel is bad, it depends on your tasks. AUS8 takes a few quick swipes with a ceramic hone, and about 10 strokes on a strop and shes back to shaving sharp all day.
Click to expand...

Worked in the Grocery Business for 25 years and cut lets say a lot of cardboard in that time and a ton of other things as needed. ;)

Used a lot of different steels over the years, pretty much almost all of them, never had any of the steels chip on me even when smacking steel once in awhile.. ;)

Carried S30V, Spyderco Military for around 5 years and never saw it chip in that knife or my ZAAN I used either.
 
I like this thread. Good example of why I never pay attention to posts that complain about discussing the same old things. I often like the same old things.
 
Wow this thread had some dust on it. I love cutting paper and I don't mind sharpening so it's not a biggie.
 
Glytch5 said:
Cardboard is 99 percent of what I cut. At work I manage a liquor store, I use my knives to makes card board displays, break down boxes and so on. I do A LOT OF CARD BOARD! The stuff for me is the ultimate test of my different blade steels, especially when we cut dividers because that card board is solid, no corrugations, just solid cardboard stock. It plays hell on harder steel, however when used with something like AUS8, its not so bad. I used to use cold steel knives at work, I recently bought the new CTS XHP from cold steel and wow, it micro chipped like crazy for me at work.
S 30v chips, d2 chips all the good stuff does, however 8cr13mov, 154cm, AUS8a and 14c28n do NOT chip, they roll a little bit, which is a very quick fix. This again exaggerates why I prefer softer steel over "super steel" it bends before it breaks.
Not to say all super steel is bad, it depends on your tasks. AUS8 takes a few quick swipes with a ceramic hone, and about 10 strokes on a strop and shes back to shaving sharp all day.
Click to expand...

Whatever, I find this enlightening. Maybe because it's exactly my experience over time too. Thanks for posting it.
 
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