Why no super steel?

T

TheRealJewf

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I am pretty new to BF, although not new at all to knives and traditional knives. Anyone have insight as to why super steels haven't made it into the traditional world? Even custom makers are still using 154CM, which is a fine steel but where is the magnacut? the m390? the LC200N? Anyone know of custom makers using them that I might have overlooked? Is it just that traditionals aren't really made for hard use so the extra expense isn't thought to be needed?

As I said, pretty new to BF and searched to find a similar discussion and didn't see one.
 
There are plenty of "modern traditionals" with super steel, like the CollectorKnives exclusives from lionSTEEL, but part of the answer is that modern steels are quite a bit more difficult to work with (perhaps even impossible, I think) using, say, the old machines GEC uses to make their knives.
 
ED79B2B5-3702-42BE-9F9F-89238BAA6275.jpeg
Case released a medium stockman and trapper with S35VN steel. I’ve got the set and they are awesome!
 
As for 'hard use' it's a relative term....plenty of 80 year plus knives are shown here on a regular basis on this part of the Forum. That shows durability in my book.

The latest is not necessarily the greatest...Traditional spring knives tend to be much smaller in size and thinner stock than Moderns and this impacts on the steel used, notably for multi blades. However, I agree than evolution cannot be ignored or halted but many 'Traditional' knives use stainless such as 154CM, VG 10, Sandviks, and the very admirable M 390 for those who like it, plenty of options. Harder super steels are harder to sharpen and very hard on machinery so this places some constraints on production. But, just what manner of tasks does a genuine pocket knife encounter that requires a super steel? Today with various Traditionals, I opened a tough cardboard parcel, some envelopes, cut twine for plants, sharpened sticks, sliced some cheese, tomatoes, broccoli and dried sausage/salami. I didn't need to cut through thick wire hawser, car body parts, thick plastic lino, very thick pvc/rubber tubing or gyproc sheeting, barbed wire etc. If I did, I'd want to use another tool...

There is a good choice of steels carbon and stainless for Traditional knives, thankfully.
 
Super steels aren't really needed... just desired.
I think the modern knife manufacturers have done a great job on selling everybody on super steels.
But realistically, lower grade steels are very durable and so much easier to sharpen up quickly... look at meat cutters etc.
Nothing wrong with a high-end steel though, but making knives by hand has it's limitations, and we are only willing to spend so much money on them.
A quality traditional knife already costs us ~$120.00 for GEC and Bokers, and customs go up to $1,000.00 or more... add super steels to that cost and it would get out of control.
 
TheRealJewf said:
I am pretty new to BF, although not new at all to knives and traditional knives. Anyone have insight as to why super steels haven't made it into the traditional world? Even custom makers are still using 154CM, which is a fine steel but where is the magnacut? the m390? the LC200N? Anyone know of custom makers using them that I might have overlooked? Is it just that traditionals aren't really made for hard use so the extra expense isn't thought to be needed?

As I said, pretty new to BF and searched to find a similar discussion and didn't see one.
Click to expand...

There are some .... The red one below is 20CV:

i-CFZgQRx-X3.jpg


These three are all CPM Cruwear:

i-b8Zfrd5-X3.jpg


I have several traditionals in CPM 154, which I do consider a "Supersteel". For example the 2018 BF knife.

A good custom maker will let you pick from whatever you want.

Anyways, bottom line is that traditionals are not made for youtube rope cutting tests. Focus is different. My traditionals do stand up to hard use.
 
I think the market for super steels in a traditional knife is quite limited. My opinion, is that most folks with traditional knives use them in a traditional manner, and sharpen in a traditional manner. Not to say many don’t use something like a diamond stone, which I use myself sometimes. But I hold my diamond stone like a whetstone and sharpen with it the same as I do an Arkansas stone.

I’d rather have to sharpen my knife daily but it only take 10 minutes, than sharpen it weekly and it take an hour.
 
The biggest draw to the traditional realm for me is the availability of simple alloy steel. I like being able to touch up on the fly with a file or whatever I have handy.

As far as hard use is concerned, I've pulled off some silly stuff with naught but a douk douk and an imacasa machete.
 
TheRealJewf said:
I am pretty new to BF, although not new at all to knives and traditional knives. Anyone have insight as to why super steels haven't made it into the traditional world? Even custom makers are still using 154CM, which is a fine steel but where is the magnacut? the m390? the LC200N? Anyone know of custom makers using them that I might have overlooked? Is it just that traditionals aren't really made for hard use so the extra expense isn't thought to be needed?

As I said, pretty new to BF and searched to find a similar discussion and didn't see one.
Click to expand...
AG Russell sells a really nice, traditional swayback in M390. I’ve got one and it is very nice. I’ll post a pic when I am able to.
 
dcavazos7us said:
ED79B2B5-3702-42BE-9F9F-89238BAA6275.jpeg
Case released a medium stockman and trapper with S35VN steel. I’ve got the set and they are awesome!
Click to expand...
That would be awesome if they switched their stainless line to that. I only buy their CV or Damascus knives cause their stainless is just too soft for my taste.
 
I don't personally want this or find it necessary in my pocket knives but I do think there are people who would buy them for sure.

I believe the biggest reason they're not used is because a lot of traditional knife manufacturers are using old equipment and older manufacturing techniques, these modern extra tough steels are hard on equipment.
 
TheRealJewf said:
I am pretty new to BF, although not new at all to knives and traditional knives. Anyone have insight as to why super steels haven't made it into the traditional world? Even custom makers are still using 154CM, which is a fine steel but where is the magnacut? the m390? the LC200N? Anyone know of custom makers using them that I might have overlooked? Is it just that traditionals aren't really made for hard use so the extra expense isn't thought to be needed?

As I said, pretty new to BF and searched to find a similar discussion and didn't see one.
Click to expand...
Most custom makers use CPM-154, and I'll say that steel is super. Some use other steels, and some take requests. But for knives with blades in the thickness range of most (you could bet all) slip joint folders, CPM-154 heat treated nicely and ground thin is going to perform as well as run-of-the-mill mass sloppy low hardness M390.

Signalprick Signalprick has made a couple in Magnacut. Cold Steel released a stockman in S35VN.

GEC releases some knives in 440C. My experience using a 440C #15 boy's knife to break down a stupid amount of cardboard (I say stupid because slip joints aren't knives well suited to that task - the blades get stuck and then handles start to pivot... you need a lock) is that it performed about as well as Benchmade's old 154CM.
 
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