Why *not* a six inch serrated tomato knife?

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Cushing H.

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Ive been doing a lot of cooking recently. Always use lots of tomatoes. One by one the several knives i had brought to soft-tomato-skin sharpness have started to lose it. One by one the ability of a ceramic rod to restore that ability has gone away. I just dont have time to always keep all my knives at that peak sharpness, and by the time it is mid evening, and i discover (or rather am reminded) that none of my knives can "cut it", i dont have time (or energy?) to go to the shop to touch up a knife.

So I .... *gasp* reach for this old stamped 4inch serrated "tomato knife". Thing is, even though the thing is like 20 years old, and has been sharpened so many times the serrations are barely even present now, it WORKS. The tomatoes are sliced, or diced, and i am on to the next cutting chore. (A few times i have even reached for my ... longer serrated bread knife for bigger tomatoes 😔)

Oh, i admit that there is just not the same gut level satisfaction of a sharp edge just sliding through a tough skin, and i realize this is considered heretical at a deep level, but ... why *not* try my hand at a 6 inch serrated knife destined to use on tomatoes? (Its also a chance to try creating serrations without committing to a long bread knife...)

BTW .... a tomato is botanically a fruit ... so why do we call it a vegatable? (There is actually kind of an interesting answer to that question....)
 
I see another perspective here. It sounds like your problem is that your everyday use knives don't stay sharp enough to effortlessly slice through tomato skin to your satisfaction so you reach for a special purpose knife for the single application of cutting a tomato. So why not dedicate a knife to strictly tomato use, keep it razor sharp so it's satisfying to use, and never use it for anything else? It should remain sharp enough to cut tomatoes for an extremely long time and be much more enjoyable to use than a serrated knife.

I'll also add that the best performance on tomato skins (in my opinion) is a very thin edge sharpened to 8000 grit and stropped to a mirror polish. But a close second to that is a very clean 800 grit edge stropped on green compound. The stropping gives a light polish to the edge and removes traces of burrs in the slightly ragged 800 grit edge but that imperfect edge also acts like a very slightly serrated knife, cutting cleanly through skins when slid against them. It won't fall through the tomato effortlessly in a true vertical chop like a polished edge will, but with a little bit of a slice or push it works extremely well.
 
CallumRD1 said:
I see another perspective here. It sounds like your problem is that your everyday use knives don't stay sharp enough to effortlessly slice through tomato skin to your satisfaction so you reach for a special purpose knife for the single application of cutting a tomato. So why not dedicate a knife to strictly tomato use, keep it razor sharp so it's satisfying to use, and never use it for anything else? It should remain sharp enough to cut tomatoes for an extremely long time and be much more enjoyable to use than a serrated knife.

I'll also add that the best performance on tomato skins (in my opinion) is a very thin edge sharpened to 8000 grit and stropped to a mirror polish. But a close second to that is a very clean 800 grit edge stropped on green compound. The stropping gives a light polish to the edge and removes traces of burrs in the slightly ragged 800 grit edge but that imperfect edge also acts like a very slightly serrated knife, cutting cleanly through skins when slid against them. It won't fall through the tomato effortlessly in a true vertical chop like a polished edge will, but with a little bit of a slice or push it works extremely well.
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Lol. Fair enough - worth considering

You know - ive been playing with knives with urasuki - the way they are sharpened makes for an incredibly sharp edge. Maybe a six inch single bevel blade with a ura?
 
why not make both ??1 serrated 1 normal you forgot to mention the blade steel and hardness of the one you are using ??
i have found many years ago much of the "Kitchen cutlery" was made too soft to keep a edge well... 75% of it anyway,
there was a guy here on B.F waaay back saying the Japanese high hardness blades beat the "Western" designs hands down..
id say try something like Magnacut at high hardness and see what you get???? i have not used it yet because it is still difficult to get,
but will be happy to once it becomes easier to get... just use a real good steel and see what you get with a real 60/62 rc hardness.. (Just my opinion)
 
It's not always a case of sharper is better.
Think about slicing a soft loaf of bread. You want to cut a thin slice so you reach for a knife sharpened to 8,000 grit and stropped with diamond paste?
Nope. You reach for a serrated bread knife. Anything else crushes the soft loaf rather than slicing it.
And that is why a serrated knife is also perfect for a tomato, especially if the tomato is on the soft side. You can cut into it easily without crushing it.
That is also why many chef's prefer their non-serrated tomato knives left with a little tooth. Too sharp of a blade and you risk the blade sliding across the skin, or crushing it if the tomato is on the soft side.
I have many very scary sharp Japanese and German knives in the kitchen, and I also have a Wusthof 5" serrated that is perfect for tomatoes, and for cutting a sandwich into pieces without crushing it when making lunch for the little ones.

In most cases any properly sharpened knife will slice tomatoes easily and nothing is more satisfying.
But the serrated knife does a fantastic job as well and its worth a try. I couldn't live without mine.

My 2 cents.
 
Pinoy Knife said:
why not make both ??1 serrated 1 normal you forgot to mention the blade steel and hardness of the one you are using ??
i have found many years ago much of the "Kitchen cutlery" was made too soft to keep a edge well... 75% of it anyway,
there was a guy here on B.F waaay back saying the Japanese high hardness blades beat the "Western" designs hands down..
id say try something like Magnacut at high hardness and see what you get???? i have not used it yet because it is still difficult to get,
but will be happy to once it becomes easier to get... just use a real good steel and see what you get with a real 60/62 rc hardness.. (Just my opinion)
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The knives are several - some japanese knives with either VG10 or Hitachi core (both san-mai), and some I have made (S35VN), all at about 62 rhc. They stay fine for almost all cutting chores - but the first indication of loss of capability comes with those somewhat soft tomatoes....
 
karnaknives said:
It's not always a case of sharper is better.
Think about slicing a soft loaf of bread. You want to cut a thin slice so you reach for a knife sharpened to 8,000 grit and stropped with diamond paste?
Nope. You reach for a serrated bread knife. Anything else crushes the soft loaf rather than slicing it.
And that is why a serrated knife is also perfect for a tomato, especially if the tomato is on the soft side. You can cut into it easily without crushing it.
That is also why many chef's prefer their non-serrated tomato knives left with a little tooth. Too sharp of a blade and you risk the blade sliding across the skin, or crushing it if the tomato is on the soft side.
I have many very scary sharp Japanese and German knives in the kitchen, and I also have a Wusthof 5" serrated that is perfect for tomatoes, and for cutting a sandwich into pieces without crushing it when making lunch for the little ones.

In most cases any properly sharpened knife will slice tomatoes easily and nothing is more satisfying.
But the serrated knife does a fantastic job as well and its worth a try. I couldn't live without mine.

My 2 cents.
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Yeah - I actually more or less agree with you. However, a while ago I started a thread saying that there might be an advantage to a *softer* blade that could be easily touched up with a steel - leaving a somewhat "toothy" edge that could tackle soft tomatoes. Several of the members promptly jumped down my throat - maintaining that "harder steel is *always* better (there was a similar discussion recently on whether serrated bread knives are necessary - again with defenders on both sides). I personally still go back and forth on that. Yes, there is something satisfying about a sharp hard steel knife gliding through a tomato. But it just does not stay that way, and I just dont have the time to always keep all of my knives to that peak performance (again, some have jumped down my throat for saying that...). I'm also not sure it is the best thing to constantly keep a knife at that peak performance - as repeated sharpenings causes the edge to recede faster, and will decrease the lifetime of the knife....

Hence my question about purposefully creating a serrated tomato knife. Yes, it looses something in terms of "purity" to the custom knifemaking ideal. On the other hand, using one keeps me going without interruption in the kitchen......
 
I gave my answer to your question from a user standpoint.
As a user, I do believe there is a legitimate need for a small-med serrated knife.
I wish there were more choices in that type of knife. I've been using the same Wusthof and even a Henckels Classic 5" serrated knives for the last 15 years or so.
I also have a 8.5" Tojiro serrated knife in the kitchen but it is used less often.

AND my answer as a knife sharpener:
Sharper is not always better.
I sharpen for some professional chefs in my area and rarely (next to never) am I asked for a mirror polished bevel or to finish on a 20,000 grit stone, etc.
I also disagree that a harder steel is always better.
(These arguments have been had a million times and I don't feel like joining them again so I will stop there.)
 
Sharp is sharp, but a toothy sharp blade is best for many applications. The toothy blade will also seem to keep its edge longer.

If you sharpen a chef knife to say 5000-10000 grit and strop it, there is essentially no tooth left. It will cut tomatoes great for a few sessions, then start sliding over the skin. You can do a sharpness test, and it will still be razor sharp. Touch it to a strop, and it will come back to tomato cutting for a bit. After say 4-5 stroppings, it will just not cut a tomato skin super well. You gotta touch it up on a stone at that point.

Take the same knife, sharpened to 320 grit, deburred and lightly stropped. That knife will cut tomatoes like a champ. Not quite as long as a serrated, but it will cut cleaner.

The trick with tomatoes is to break through the skin. As soon as the skin is broken, the rest of the cut is super easy.
 
Danke42 said:
Why not 8"?
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12” or GTFO.

My mileage varies- IMHO sharpening a fine edge should be a 15 minute commitment once a week. For our kitchen knife, a DMT coarse stone is enough to restore the edge quickly, and it’s a good working edge, good enough for even the softest tomatoes. It just takes a soft touch and a little finesse.

However, you do you, especially if you’re successful.
 
Cushing H. said:
The knives are several - some japanese knives with either VG10 or Hitachi core (both san-mai), and some I have made (S35VN), all at about 62 rhc. They stay fine for almost all cutting chores - but the first indication of loss of capability comes with those somewhat soft tomatoes....
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i guess i have to ask if any that you use are serrated ?? if not why not try a hard serrated knife something very narrow with a mix of course/fine serrations??
i got some of the same kind when someone asked how to make the serrations??? lots of "Experts" but not have done it type of thing ..
you just use rubber bands placed on top of the contact wheel.. space them with tape so they don't move..
whatever you decide if it works for you that is all that matters..
 
EngrSorenson said:
12” or GTFO.

My mileage varies- IMHO sharpening a fine edge should be a 15 minute commitment once a week. For our kitchen knife, a DMT coarse stone is enough to restore the edge quickly, and it’s a good working edge, good enough for even the softest tomatoes. It just takes a soft touch and a little finesse.

However, you do you, especially if you’re successful.
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Those are some massive tomatoes!

Full disclosure I like slicing tomatoes with my Spidiechef which is not serrated but it's a very sharp toothy edge. But for a big one the blade length isn't there.
 
Cush, I cook a lot and abuse my knifes. I keep a 400/1000 diamond stone in the kitchen and a piece of leather with some compound. If I feel like I am loosing the edge, couple of pulls across the stone and leather will restore the edge plenty. A 5-10 min sharpening session maybe every 5-6 months.
 
FredyCro said:
Cush, I cook a lot and abuse my knifes. I keep a 400/1000 diamond stone in the kitchen and a piece of leather with some compound. If I feel like I am loosing the edge, couple of pulls across the stone and leather will restore the edge plenty. A 5-10 min sharpening session maybe every 5-6 months.
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Hey Freddy. I keep a ceramic rod and also a piece of leather in the kitchen. Works for a while, then at one point is not enough to really bring the edge back. You could argue that I should truly sharpen my blades more often - but dont seem to get the time because of other household and family stuff that needs to get done (you get an idea of that by how long it takes me to complete a knife .... and by way of example, right now it is now 6:35 central time, I still have about 1/2 hour of stuff to get done at the computer, then I need to finish cleaning the accumulated kitchen clutter, THEN I get to start cooking dinner. I'll be lucky if it is ready by 8:30 (but then again, we have long tended (or resigned ourselves) to operating on the Spanish dinner schedule).

Part of it is I am interested/intrigued on how one can go about making a serrated edge (I've been playing with ideas on how it can be done accurately using a mini mill.....). But, I've always thought about using a diamond stone as a true sharpening tool .... not just for quick touch ups. I might just need to run out and go buy a 400 stone and try to emulate you :) .
 
This would do a good job of sharpening a serrated kitchen knife. But it wouldn't turn a plain edge into any kind of serration you'd want to show other people.

603FCBN_L.jpg
 
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Danke42 said:
This would do a good job of sharpening a serrated kitchen knife. But it wouldn't turn a plain edge into any kind of serration you'd want to show other people.

603FCBN_L.jpg
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I've actually had really good luck in "sharpening" a serrated knife by going to the "inverse side" (opposite from the side the serrations are ground in to) and slightly sharpening the flat side just like you would sharpen a straight edge. This really brings back the sharp "tooth" ..... but along the way you decrease the depth of the serration. Eventually done enough times you just grind away to the point where the serration is lost. then it is time to get a new knife :)

There are a few folks out there who have use a diamond chainsaw sharpening tool for a dremel to grind the serrations on new knives. I suppose you could do the same thing for old serrated knives (in fact I just ordered a set of those stones, and I *happen* to have at least two old serrated knives to experiment on :). I'll keep people posted...
 
Don't overthink it. You enjoy making knives. If you have any urge to try it then do so. Worst case it doesn't work as well as you hoped. You will still learn something and improve your skills. I have made several serrated knives and they cut very well.
 
I like serrated blades especially if they are sharp. So it will be pretty cool if you make the one in the title :) and I'm sure it will be very effective against tomatoes :D.

With all that said , when we prepare tomatoes for conservation and we have to cut 20-30 kg I sharpen some thin soft kitchen knives to a 400 grit stone, deburr them with very very light passes at slightly bigger angle on the same stone and they are just brutal. They fly trough tomato skins like nothing. Same goes to finger skin so you have to be careful.
 
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