Why Phosphor Bronze Washers?

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FullerH

Joined
Nov 25, 1998
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I see many posts discussing the replacement of the standard Spydie washers with these. What is their advantage over the standard washers? They seem to have served me excellently.
 
In my experience, anything that is NOT Phospher Bronze will eventually rip, tear, pinch or get squished. Sooner or later playing havoc with blade feel and lockup.

I would also say that inexpensive knives without liners or stainless handle to stainless blade don't need them. But anything that has liners and/or uses G10 or better as handle material should have them.
 
I have seen washers with small particles of grit mbeded in them after just a little use. You would get a sandpaper effect. PB will not allow that.
 
Phosphor bronze washers are effectively incompressible, hold up much better under sand/grit contamination, and actually polish themselves smooth after a while. Nonmetallic washers can only get worse with time, but depending on what the knife is subjected to, they may not noticeably degrade and so plenty of people are happy with them.
 
I thought Spyderco used PB washers on their higher end stuff? :confused:

Sigh...answered my own question.
 
I like a tight pivot and have found that teflon will get compressed, will tear, will screwup the action of the knife when it reaches this point. For that reason I like the p/b washers. The Nylatron washers are also good in that they are more durable than teflon, and are self lubricating.
 
Spyderco is supposed to use PB washers in practically all knives for a few months now.

Personally I don't get it. I can not see how you would squish permanently a nylon washer that is as thin as Spyderco's. There should be blade to liner contact long before you do anything to the washer. And as any metal, if deformed the PB washer will be permanently deformed, while a nylon washer should recover at least to some extent.

But, hey, if it is popular demand, I am fine with it. I don't see the need but don't have anything against them either.
 
I use PB washers in the folders I make. I didn't use to but now I've found a couple things about them that I like that make them something 'acceptable'. I like the fact that they don't tear as has been mentioned. There appears to be less blade wobble with the PB washers vs a teflon or nylon washer and they get better with age. Once a knife is 'broken in' the PB washers make the knife a great one for smooth as silk action. And finally the detent ball can be set in the lock easily using an extra phosphorus bronze washer as the stop for the punch. In other words you set the washer around the bearing sitting in the hole and tap the punch and the ball bearing seats to the exact height of the washer thickness. Simple and reliable for a smooth opening and closing of the blade.
 
I love the "phosphor bronze washer" question. It's amazing how the experts disagree. I don't know squat, but I do respect Terzuola's opinion and his long history in this field. This is what he said in a past thread on this subject:


"My preference has always been Nylatron. Teflon, as noted above is compressable and not very strong, though it is slick. Bronze or any metal to metal requires lubrcant and this can attract and hold grit. I use a bit of dry lubricant crayon but with nylatron, even this is superfluous. Knives I send to the mid-east war zone go out bone dry to prevent grit attraction and they work just as slick as all my other knives. I have adjusted and repaired folders of mine that are 10 or 12 years old ( real antiques) and even after rough duty, the washers are virtually unmarked with no measurable wear to them. Nylatron is a "filled"nylon with molybdenum di-sulphide, the black grease used when assembling gun barrels to receivers and designed for extreme lubrication applications. A drawback to nylatron is that it only comes in a limited number of thicknesses. I have always used.020 to allow for easy cleanout of the pivot area."
 
I really don't buy the grit build up thing as a problem unless the knife is made in such a way that it cannot be taken apart for cleaning. My knives have a pivot pin and hex head or torx screws that allow complete break down of the knife should it need cleaned up from an accdental dropping in the sand or the mud. I would probably not recomend washers at all if the knife is pinned permanently.

I have had some knives brought into my shop from other makers that needed the teflon or nylon washers replaced. No one knew this until the knife was broken down and it was discovered that the reason the knife no longer opened as smooth or why it had a stick point during the opening where it suddenly became harder to move was indeed because of a torn or ripped washer in the pivot causing the problem.
 
We've used a variety of nylon, nylatron, teflon and capton washers over the years. In fact it was Bob T that first turned us on to using plastic washers.

In terms of smoothness, performance and cost, there is little difference between the two.

Actually there were several reasons for changing. One ws that our customers, (you) asked for pb washers. Two was that pb washers held up better to some of the chemicals used in coating knives (DLC) and three, ELUs taking apart our knives :rolleyes: had an easier time with the pb washers,

sal

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The entire "business chain" from; raw materials, manufacturing, marketing, selling, distributing, shipping, warrantees, insurance, credit, etc. ALL EXISTS to service the ELU (End Line User). Remove the ELU from the equation and the entire business chain falls like a house of cards. We all work for you!
 
Hey brownshoe, where you getting your nylatron washers? I know that Knifekits has some but have you another source? Btw, is it graphite powder your using? I know, questions, questions, and more questions!! :D
 
Texas knifemaker supply has the black nylatron washers.

PB washers are not as smooth when first installed into the knives. But, they break in over time and eventually get very silky smooth. Some of the ones I've had come into my shop for sharpening that are a few years old fooled me at first thinking they were plastic because the knives were so smooth. So, I think PB is the way to go personally. Eventually they'll get smoother with use.
 
The quote is from Bob Terzuola. I can't help you with a source for washers. But I believe Terzuola doesn't do e-mail, but he said in other threads to feel free to give him a call. I believe you can get his number from Blade ads and he's posted it here in a thread on his American Made knife.
 
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