Why S30V steel for a multi-tool?

T

Tseg

Joined
Aug 25, 2018
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Well, this is a knife forum and I do collect knives. For me, S30V was entry-level for my first multi-tool. Of course, phosphor bronze washers were also an entry-level requirement. If you ain't got a 1-handed knife opener on your multi-tool, you ain't got squat. I still debate whether I should have gone for the G10 scales vs. titanium... but could only find G10 in orange... a color I was not looking for right now. I believe weight would have decreased from 8.9oz to 8.0 oz.. So far I'm very happy with the quality of this gizmo. I'm glad the latest iteration did away with the extra crimping notch built into the nose of the pliers. There was rarely a positive review about that notch.

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Why not S30V?

While many might be chasing the latest or "greatest" premium steel as a knife enthusiast, I think most MT/SAK consumers world think of steel from a maintenance standpoint--whether it is rust proof, easy to sharpen and with a good price point.

Most day-to-day consumers probably never heard of Rockwell hardness, let alone purchasing all the expensive sharpening tool necessary to take care of the super steel that has really high edge retention, those things mean squat to them.

Some may argue a multitool or a Swiss army knife with a super steel will be the be-all end-all for the MT/SAK world, but over the years, numbers at Victorinox probably has proven that most of the world are happy with just the humble Vic steel; so without jacking up the prices too high, S30V maybe a reasonable premium that most may still willing to pay.
 
I have the Charge+ TTI with S-30V blades, (older model with extra crimper in pliers nose) along with a Buck 110 with that blade steel and a couple SFO 110's with CPM154.

They rarely get used. The MT has been on my belt for over a year. I think I've used the blade once ... maybe twice. (serrated blade even less. I detest/loathe serrated blades. If I need a saw, I'll use that blade.) I pretty much always reach for a slipjoint with 440A/425HC/ or 1095/T-10 blade steel when I need to cut something. Easy to sharpen, (and no diamond or SiC stones or plates required) and no worries about chipping or otherwise damaging the blade.

The "obsolete" steels do everything I need a knife for.
They can also be sharpened in the field or at the job site without spendy diamond plates or SiC stones, when/if dry stropping does not bring back the working edge.
 
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For me the blades on my multi tools aren’t my main knife they are a backup. I have knives that are my main cutting tool. Using the knife on a multi tool is kinda clunky and to big as the grip is not the best so that’s why I prefer a dedicated knife that has a better ergonomic grip. As for the blade steel on a multi tool I would rather have toughness as the primary consideration and corrosion resistance.

I use the pliers most and then the other tools sometimes but rarely use the knife. If I already have it in hand working on something and need to make a quick cut I’ll use the blade but that’s only occasional.
 
Tseg said:
Meh...

https://www.bladehq.com/blog/knife-steel-guide/

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But show us the toughness numbers. Slight decrease in edge retention over S30V and much better toughness and stain resistance. Almost 3x more at 60-61 RC per Larrin's charts.

For an MT, I prefer an tougher blade as I'm more likely to use it like a razor blade and scrape stuff. However, S30V is just fine too. Honestly, for an MT, since I don't use the blade as a main blade, I'm not excited about spending a lot more for a better steel over something cheap like 420HC or 12c27. Just don't need it for that application.

I like S30V as a daily carry steel. Wish more slipjoints came in it, really, where the knife won't be used rough but it will be used to cut. Also wish more knife-based MT's had higher-end steel too as I've fone to carrying a small knipex over a plier-based MT as it just works a lot better for me and I like knife-based MT's more for the reduced weight and how they carry.
 
Six days a week I have a LM Surge over my right hip. Its knife blade steel is nothing special. Sundays I have a LM Charge TTI with an S30V blade over my right hip. Usually you'll find me with a second MT clipped to my left front pocket, typically a LM Charge TI with a 154CM blade. I'm aware of how the three different steels spec out, but in daily use I don't really notice any difference. The Charges have that "oo-ah" factor and earn me bragging rights, but the Surge is usually all I need to get the job done. T-A
 
I had thought of buying an MT for a number of years. My daily carry has been a Shirogorov Neon Zero knife, which I love. But in recent months there have been times I wish I had quick access to a screw driver or a pry tool or pliers. I finally decided to break down and buy a MT that did not leave me thinking of "upgrading" down the road, thus the Charge + TTI. I'm hopeful it will be my 1 and only MT for the balance of my life. For now, it has replaced the Shirogorov in my pocket, but it does have a lot more size and mass... we'll see how long I put up with it, which I guess will be driven by how much I actually use it in the weeks and months ahead.
If nothing else, it will be my second floor tool, whereas my tool bag is in the basement. At a minimum I see it eliminating periodic multi-flight walks for a minor tool application.
 
Tseg said:
Meh...

https://www.bladehq.com/blog/knife-steel-guide/

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This is somewhat deceptive, in that (even assuming the accuracy of the chart, which (at a minimum) doesn't control for certain variables) "edge retention" does not really mean what we users think of as "edge retention." This chart is measuring something like "abrasion resistance." It doesn't account for "non-wear" deformity at the edge. Magnacut excels because it has such an increased bump in toughness while keeping other variables in balance. It means one can run Magnacut harder and thinner, which means it will cut better and longer than other steels that may have better pure abrasion resistance.

To give an example, if you chip out hard M390 cutting a cardboard box and hitting a staple, that knife will no longer cut as well as a similar knife in Magnacut that is tougher, thus didn't take on that deformity at the edge.

Most of these steels are plenty for most of our uses, of course.
 
Tseg said:
If nothing else, it will be my second floor tool, whereas my tool bag is in the basement. At a minimum I see it eliminating periodic multi-flight walks for a minor tool application.
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This is similar to my main use for my leathermen, staging places so I don't have to chase down tools for simple jobs. One at my office desk on main floor, one upstairs, one in the basement, and on in the car console. I got most of them used or I wouldn't have so many, and then 1 would've been adequate.
 
Lesknife said:
For me the blades on my multi tools aren’t my main knife they are a backup. I have knives that are my main cutting tool. Using the knife on a multi tool is kinda clunky and to big as the grip is not the best so that’s why I prefer a dedicated knife that has a better ergonomic grip.
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This is an important comment. A multi tool should not be one’s primary tool nor their primary knife… It fits a spot as emergency backup or for quick use on a minor need. As such, seeking the ultimate corrosion resistant blade makes little sense unless the rest of the steel bits are made of the same material. If my pliers and file were corroded but the knife was not I doubt I would carry the tool.

As a knife geek, having a quality knife steel is fun and interesting, but likely not overly practical in a MT. Likewise, many MT’s have a pry bar tool, so certain aspects of durability become less important. If one looks at the MT holistically, having the ultimate knife without all the other parts being the ultimate starts to make less sense. I’m now reconsidering, based on some comments here, that S30V is likely on the verge of overkill for a MT.
 
The other functions on a multitool are FAR MORE IMPORTANT to me than the blade steel.
One of the main reasons for this is that I have found all the major multitool plier manufacturers I have multitools from (Leatherman, Victorinox, Gerber) to have:
>Decent mid-grade steel (420HC or 1.4110)
>Excellent edge geometries for what they are
>Multiple blades in most cases

Multitool blades to me are just another tool. All of the tools are a compromise. I would much rather have great tools all around made from 420HC and a sub $100 price than a nice blade steel but a $200 price point.
The 20%-30% better properties of a premium blade steel are just not worth doubling the price for a tool I'm going to use hard.

When you're cutting nasty stuff, there's really not much difference in performance between 420HC and S30V (or Magnacut), until you go to sharpen it...

Nothing better than 154CM in this box, all but 2 are plain-jane 420HC/1.4110 blades. I use them daily and have only once had a blade get dull enough to need to sharpen it during the day.
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i also have a bunch of LM and even issue Gerbers. all of them live in backpacks, BOB, and vehicles.
i usually get the best version of each model, but the truth is, that i rarely use any of them. BUT,
i have used them a few times and i was happy i had them.
 
Honestly id be happy if I could order a multitool with the tools I want and a blade would be at the bottom of the list. but if it has to have one a cheap and easy to resharpen steel would be best. I cant imagine I'm the only guy here that carries a knife and multitool. i carry a sog most days because they flip open one handed and have the strongest plyers.
 
BlindMouse2of3 said:
Honestly id be happy if I could order a multitool with the tools I want and a blade would be at the bottom of the list. but if it has to have one a cheap and easy to resharpen steel would be best. I cant imagine I'm the only guy here that carries a knife and multitool. i carry a sog most days because they flip open one handed and have the strongest plyers.
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I was just telling my wife how awesome it would be if the MT companies would let you order which blades/tools you want. I have really enjoyed my Charge as it opens really easy and is a nice size. I use the pliers for needs during property chores- nothing heavy.
I like S30v, but like you I always have another knife with me.

Edited to say ‘how’.
 
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I think that with the steep grind and thick behind the edge in most multi tools, primo steel is just gimmik to charge us knifenerds a bit more.
 
elasmonut said:
... in most multi tools, primo steel is just gimmik to charge us knifenerds a bit more.
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Amen! A knifenerd and his money are soon parted. :D

BlindMouse2of3 said:
I cant imagine I'm the only guy here that carries a knife and multitool.
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You're probably right. With that said, however, I'd reckon Leatherman's sells over 95% of their products to "Average Joes" just looking for a handy tool to hang on their belt for work or play. If you ask most Leatherman carriers what steel their blade is, they'll probably answer, "Leatherman steel."

bikerector said:
I got most of them used or I wouldn't have so many, and then 1 would've been adequate.
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A man after my own frugal heart! :thumbsup: Retail is for suckers.
 
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