Why Scandie Grind?

J

JamesofArc

Joined
Apr 19, 2016
Messages
310
Why do so many like a Scandie Grind better than a Saber or Flat Grind?

What is superior about it?

OR

Do you believe that a Saber or Flat Grind is superior than a Scandie Grind?
 
Can you describe what you mean by the difference between a Scandi grind, a sabre grind and a (V-)flat grind (as opposed to a full flat grind)?

I think of Scandi, sabre and V-flat grinds as being essentially the same, with some variation as to how high the transition to the flat is (higher or lower) and whether or not there is a secondary bevel.

If you mean to discuss the finer points of how high the transition or the use of a secondary bevel, you might want to define your terms as there is not definitive right way to use these terms (that I am aware of).
 
its specific to the use of the knife its not that one is superior.

Is a pick up truck better then a sedan?

it all depends on what its for, and what the user wants and likes.
 
marcinek said:
Full flat. Best slicer.
Click to expand...
You know it!

Sharpest knives are flat grinds

Love flat grinds for kitchen and Edc :D
pinnah said:
Can you describe what you mean by the difference between a Scandi grind, a sabre grind and a (V-)flat grind (as opposed to a full flat grind)?

I think of Scandi, sabre and V-flat grinds as being essentially the same, with some variation as to how high the transition to the flat is (higher or lower) and whether or not there is a secondary bevel.

If you mean to discuss the finer points of how high the transition or the use of a secondary bevel, you might want to define your terms as there is not definitive right way to use these terms (that I am aware of).
Click to expand...


Flat, Scandi, Saber
 
DeadboxHero said:
Love flat grinds for kitchen and Edc :D
Click to expand...

Same here. I find scandies almost worthless for push cutting/food prep. Once they go "deep" into something they bind up. Try slicing a carrot or onion with one. Fine for a shallow, draw cut, but so are flat grinds.
 
marcinek said:
Same here. I find scandies almost worthless for push cutting/food prep. Once they go "deep" into something they bind up. Try slicing a carrot or onion with one. Fine for a shallow, draw cut, but so are flat grinds.
Click to expand...

Yup, carrot would fly across the kitchen haha

But then we take a full flat grind and try to cut as piece of wood and it binds and gets stuck

Versus a scandi the thicker steel behind the edge will force the wood apart as it cuts so the edge can keep cutting

It's very task specific
 
There are manufacturers, like Buck, who would refer to that Becker as a flat grind, and who would distinguish that from a full-flat grind, as on the Spyderco.

I'm not arguing one way or the other, as I've seen these terms get tossed around a lot in different ways.

The only things that matters in this thread (IMO), is what the OP was trying to ask. I've no clue yet as to what he's really asking because I don't know how he is using the terms.

FWIW, I think of the difference between scandi, sabre and v-flat in terms of where the transition is:
low - scandi
middle - sabre
v-flat - high
full flat - no transition to flat

Here is an old Schrade H-15 with what I think of as a sabre grind.
Schrade H-15 Modified by Pinnah, on Flickr

Crappy lighting though so you'll need to look at the tang to see where the primary grind is.

But again, my definitions aren't the point. I'm still wondering what the OP is talking about.
 
pinnah said:
There are manufacturers, like Buck, who would refer to that Becker as a flat grind, and who would distinguish that from a full-flat grind, as on the Spyderco.

I'm not arguing one way or the other, as I've seen these terms get tossed around a lot in different ways.

The only things that matters in this thread (IMO), is what the OP was trying to ask. I've no clue yet as to what he's really asking because I don't know how he is using the terms.

FWIW, I think of the difference between scandi, sabre and v-flat in terms of where the transition is:
low - scandi
middle - sabre
v-flat - high
full flat - no transition to flat

Here is an old Schrade H-15 with what I think of as a sabre grind.
Schrade H-15 Modified by Pinnah, on Flickr

Crappy lighting though so you'll need to look at the tang to see where the primary grind is.

But again, my definitions aren't the point. I'm still wondering what the OP is talking about.
Click to expand...
I feel ya brother

Just remember

When you hear hoofbeats think horses not zebras :D
 
This is how I understand it.

Scandi grinds are a single "flat" grind, with no secondary bevel (a zero edge).
Saber grinds are a "flat" grind that goes up the blade, but not as far as the spine, that feature a secondary bevel.
Full flat grinds are ground "flat" all the way to the spine, and feature a secondary bevel.

DeadboxHeroes photo shows each of those, and he identified them the same way that I would. I also agree with his and Marcinek's description of what they are good at. I am no expert though, so this is merely anecdotal evidence (that I agree with them).

I find that Full flat works great for slicing through things, as such, they make great food prep and general utility knives. Saber knives are more robust, but sacrifice some cutting performance, particularly when you're completely "submerged" in the media). Scandi's are excellent wood carvers in my experience.

Thats just my two cents though.
 
It also depends a lot on stock thickness.
Grind 5mm stock into a full flat grind. Then grind 3mm stock at the same angle. The 3mm will end up a sabre grind. The 3mm knife will slice better.

Without discussing stock thickness, it is impossible to meaningfully answer the question.
 
DeadboxHero said:
I feel ya brother

Just remember

When you hear hoofbeats think horses not zebras :D
Click to expand...

You would think, right?

But the folks on the Buck sub-forum have "educated" me to expect zebras on this forum.

What would you call this grind?

$_3.JPG


Buck calls it (and thus the BCCI Buckalites will insist that is) a "Flat Grind". I don't have that particular secret decoder ring, so who am I to argue.

For the OP, I don't like pure Scandi grinds, so I can't defend them. Those who like them claim they can be easily sharpened by putting the full zero-grind bevel flat on a stone and that they give superior wood cutting performance. Personally, I find sharpening a Scandi grind to be a PITA in the field and I find the pure, zero-grind edge to be prone to folding. So for me, I view a Scandi grind as a decent out of the box start on a convex grind and I thusly put it on a stone and round the thing off to convex.

IMO, a thin sabre grind (like the H-15 posted previously) gives a good balance between slicing ability (thin) and wood splitting (the convexed sabre grind splits well). The thicker sabre grinds, imo, are designed to be sharp pry bars. If you need to open a lot of crates with your knife, then that makes sense.

YMMV.
 
the buck 110 is a hollow grind


and to answer the original question, i prefer scandi grinds when it comes to woods use, but thats about it. i like the way they bite into wood, and its easy to control the depth of your cut, much like with a chisel
 
First off: When done correctly, all grinds work well for general outdoors tasks or even bushcraft. I use full flat, scandi, and saber grinds on a regular basis. They all have their own little quirks, but at the end of the day, I don't think any one of them really stands out as better overall.

Here's a quick breakdown:

Given the same spine thickness:
A full flat grind will slice best, followed by saber, followed by scandi.
A scandi will bite into wood the best, followed by saber, followed by flat.

They're equally easy to maintain and sharpen, just different IMO. Secondary bevels provide extra edge strength, so scandi is more vulnerable to edge rolling than the other two. This can be fixed by stropping a slight microbevel into the scandi edge. I have rolled edges with a scandi, but never with the others. It's easy to fix with a strop, though.

I have carved traps, notches, and bow drill sets with all 3 grinds. Scandi removes material notably faster and performs push cuts more effortlessly. This is why some bushcrafters prefer them.

Saber is the best compromise between edge strength and overall strength of the blade. Scandi has the strongest blade, so to speak, since it maintains stock thickness for much of the blade. Full flat grinds are thinner towards the edge, so they have less blade strength than saber, but the same edge strength. I have found all the grinds to be sufficiently strong for every task I have asked of them.
 
Actually, i find i can get my hollow ground knives to be the best slicers.

Not for wood work, or anything where the shoulder would get caught on hard stuff. But for just pure sliciness, nothing beats a hollow grind IME. And I'll add further, that a hollow grind, with a convened edge, they way i can do with my Buck 110s on the Ko Worksharp, with 17dps... now that is just all sorts of slicey glory with edge retention to boot!
 
Last edited:
pinnah said:
There are manufacturers, like Buck, who would refer to that Becker as a flat grind, and who would distinguish that from a full-flat grind, as on the Spyderco.

I'm not arguing one way or the other, as I've seen these terms get tossed around a lot in different ways.

The only things that matters in this thread (IMO), is what the OP was trying to ask. I've no clue yet as to what he's really asking because I don't know how he is using the terms.

FWIW, I think of the difference between scandi, sabre and v-flat in terms of where the transition is:
low - scandi
middle - sabre
v-flat - high
full flat - no transition to flat

Here is an old Schrade H-15 with what I think of as a sabre grind.
Schrade H-15 Modified by Pinnah, on Flickr

Crappy lighting though so you'll need to look at the tang to see where the primary grind is.

But again, my definitions aren't the point. I'm still wondering what the OP is talking about.
Click to expand...
A flat grind and sabre grind are essentially the same thing, where the blade stays the stock thickness until the primary bevel. A full flat grind is an immediate taper, a scandi is a sabre/flat grind with no secondary bevel.
 
"Scandi" is regarded as "good" - a selling feature (see also "tactical," "combat," "bushcraft," etc.) .

Various combinations are called "Scandi" by sellers. They want the benefit of the label.

Every thread here over the years has different people giving different definitions for "Scandi."

The "official" definition at British Blades (where it was decided that "Scandi" is the ultimate "bushcrafting" blade) is a saber-ground blade with a low, flat primary bevel and no secondary bevel - none - "zero" (hence "zero edge") So a "Scandiflex," "Scandi with micro-secondary bevel," or "Scandi Convex" are all just sharp knives. (See also "just a little pregnant")
 
Last edited:
marcinek said:
Full flat. Best slicer.
Click to expand...

I can agree with that. But I have a question: The best slicer for any given knife is a full flat. But take any knife that is full flat, one can get another knife that's a better slicer if the other knife is thinner and full flat resulting in a more acute angle, yes?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top