Why so tiny little screws?

H

huugh

Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
1,772
Why is T6 size so heavily used for frame screws (speaking about folders obviously)?

Is there a reason that prevents using larger size? T8 would be my choice (that's the size used for pivot screw sometimes) - not for some questionable "strength" issues but for ease of adjustment (IMHO T6 deforms way too easily) and durability of the screw's head.

It's similar with clip screws - the extra small Phillips doesn't really float my boat. Why not something bigger?
 
I'm guessing it's down to material cost, workmanship cost and someother business reasons I'm not too savvy to know.

Torx screws (according to another BF member) have the advantage of being fast to screw (poke and twist without much thought) and it is designed to fail (screw head deform) if it experienced too much torsion (screwing) in order to prevent the threads from going kaput.

Secondly (my guess) is the smaller it is then the cheaper it is. Both in the screw itself and the hole (size indicates amount of work and wear and tear of threading machine's bits). I'm in the manufacturing line (not knife/folders but simple steel engineering) and this is the case which may be the same for mass produced folders.
 
I'm with you, Huugh. . . I deformed several T6 screw heads now, and have boogered up my T6 driver as well.
 
yinyang said:
I'm with you, Huugh. . . I deformed several T6 screw heads now, and have boogered up my T6 driver as well.
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I'm definitely with you on this!!! One of my biggest and most irritating things in my life nowadays are my bloody torx screws and the stupid drivers are too easily buggered! Only the T8, T7 and T6 in my case but I'm pretty sure that the quality of some screws are to blame as well. Some deform more easily than others, stands to reason that the type of steel used in making the screws are different in strength!

I vote that big knife companies stop using them small screws! Yeah I got nothing better to do than rant about stuff like this :)
 
Anybody feel like taking a drill & tap to their Spyderco to do a homemade upsize on the screws?
 
bobby.t said:
Anybody feel like taking a drill & tap to their Spyderco to do a homemade upsize on the screws?
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To be fair my problem was with the smaller screws of other brands. The one I meant when I said that though it was the same small size but more stronger and less problem was my Spydies :)

Basically for me Spydies small screws are of good material instead of some other brand which I will refrain from naming.

Though I will definitely choose a Spydie of larger screws failing which I will definately go for bobby.t's idea anytime (If I had the necessary tools/skill/knowledge that is :))

PS: Should have mentioned earlier that I'm not mad at the spider's screws.
 
The way I see it, it's space, economics and logistics.

Regarding logistics, it'd be better to have the same size screws in all knives, big or small. Hence you'd need the screws to fit in Spyderco's smallest screw using knife. Having bigger screws would not only mean requiring more space below the screws, but also moving the screw down since there'll be less space above. The benefits of having larger screws are probably minimal at that level.

As Cotherion said before, it's probably cheaper to have smaller screws in terms of materials and storage space. So the smaller the screws, the better.

Remember that in Golden, they have their own screw making machine, so it's not just a case of buying a pack of 5000 screws in this size, and 1000 in that size. The less varieties of materials that are needed, the better. Wouldn't surprise me if they had their own spacer/stop pin making machine either, so if they had two sizes of screw, there'd most likely be two sizes of spacer as well.

It would also much easier when knives come in for W&R, just grab a few screws, black or silver, x mm long or y mm, that's already 4 variations, but better than having two different screws, which would double that number.

bobby.t said:
Anybody feel like taking a drill & tap to their Spyderco to do a homemade upsize on the screws?
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That would probably depend on what knife you have. On ones where there's sufficient meat in the backspacer and all, I'd say go for it. Just remember that for ones where the only things holding the handles apart are spacers, pivot and maybe a stop pin, it'll mean getting new spacers as well.
 
O.k. . . I haven't had a problem with Spyderco screws yet, either. Just complaining on the general topic of screws.
 
Th232 said:
The way I see it, it's space, economics and logistics.

Regarding logistics, it'd be better to have the same size screws in all knives, big or small. Hence you'd need the screws to fit in Spyderco's smallest screw using knife. Having bigger screws would not only mean requiring more space below the screws, but also moving the screw down since there'll be less space above. The benefits of having larger screws are probably minimal at that level.

As Cotherion said before, it's probably cheaper to have smaller screws in terms of materials and storage space. So the smaller the screws, the better.

Remember that in Golden, they have their own screw making machine, so it's not just a case of buying a pack of 5000 screws in this size, and 1000 in that size. The less varieties of materials that are needed, the better. Wouldn't surprise me if they had their own spacer/stop pin making machine either, so if they had two sizes of screw, there'd most likely be two sizes of spacer as well.

It would also much easier when knives come in for W&R, just grab a few screws, black or silver, x mm long or y mm, that's already 4 variations, but better than having two different screws, which would double that number.



That would probably depend on what knife you have. On ones where there's sufficient meat in the backspacer and all, I'd say go for it. Just remember that for ones where the only things holding the handles apart are spacers, pivot and maybe a stop pin, it'll mean getting new spacers as well.
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I'd be happy with "one size fits all", just make that size atleast T8 :)
Actually, I'd be even happier if ALL screws were constructed like the pivot screw - i.e. there is a "female" part and a "male" counterpart that is screwed into the former one (sorry if terminology is wrong, I hope you understand what I mean).

I'm not that sure on sizing problems - difference between T6 and T8 head diameter is not that big, and I doubt if there is knife where the screws couldn't be moved by mm or two.


I hope we can expect a response from Spyderco on this topic.
 
I undestand the need to keep the screws small.

What i DON'T UNDERSTAND is why most manufacturers, Spyderco included, don't use simple flathead screws as opposed to the torx/star screws which strip so easily? :grumpy:

I'm not going to speculate as to an answer, as i'd much rather hear it directly from Sal.

Sal, please fill me in. :)
 
Man we complain so much about Torx we forget how awful the usual alternative is... hex.

I think the primary reasons to use Torx are -- it discourages disassembly except for the most determined (so knife noobs don't disassemble knives and have to ship them back to the manufacturer for reassembly), and they are a lot harder to strip than hex.
 
Lucien said:
I undestand the need to keep the screws small.

What i DON'T UNDERSTAND is why most manufacturers, Spyderco included, don't use simple flathead screws as opposed to the torx/star screws which strip so easily? :grumpy:

I'm not going to speculate as to an answer, as i'd much rather hear it directly from Sal.

Sal, please fill me in. :)
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Ever see a really nice old S&W revolver that some amature gunsmith took apart? Flat head screws disfigure too easily. With a flat head the proper size screw driver must be used or else it with mess up the head. With a torx you can only use the proper size.
 
coop1957 has a major point.

"Regular" flat head and cross-head screws really are easy to screw-up (pun intended).

I wouldn't mind going a bit bigger in size, but flat head screws and such should be reserved for pivots and other applications where the screws can me made big enough to be robust against improperly sized drivers, slipping, etc.
 
carrot said:
Man we complain so much about Torx we forget how awful the usual alternative is... hex.

I think the primary reasons to use Torx are -- it discourages disassembly except for the most determined (so knife noobs don't disassemble knives and have to ship them back to the manufacturer for reassembly), and they are a lot harder to strip than hex.
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I have found Hex is only easy to strip when you use the wrong size... unfortunately between metric and standard their are lots of incorrect choices. Supposed to be zero play in the fastener and driver when you you work on it, but some people end up stripping it anyways. As well, you can't always tell the difference between a metric and standard hex fastener.
Proper tool for the job...or close enough to it I guess.;)
 
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