Wicked edge or traditional water stones

B

Blaketho

Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
24
Hey everyone new here, really hoping to get some insight especially from someone experienced in both worlds of the Wicked edge and traditional waterstone sharpening.

So thats pretty much the question, I am getting into knives and have a decent collection started of some nice knives $150 + range and I'm looking into sharpening/honing/maintenance stuff and I am torn between learning how to sharpen on a bench stone deal or getting a wicked edge that takes the guess work out of the angles. I have used a regular bench stone maybe once in my life on an old pocked knife years ago and I never had any real "training" if you will, on how to use a regular stone, hence why I turned to the Wicked Edge sharpening system.

If anyone can give me some pros and cons and how difficult it is to learn to sharpen on water stones that would be great.

My knives consist of a Boker Nano, Strider SnG, Paramilitary 2, ZT 0560, and a CRKT M2102. Im a little scared of sharpening a strider on a waterstone and messing the whole angle up and everything so thanks guys hope to hear from you.
 
It took me a long time to learn to sharpen well on stones. But it was worth it. Now I feel comfortable sharpening even my most expensive knives on stones. Get a Wicked Edge and love it, but I suggest learning to sharpen as well. May not always have a fancy sharpening doohickey out in the sticks. I've had to sharpen my knives in the woods away from sharpeners, and I did it on a truck window and stropped it on my boot and it shaved. It's a valuable skill. Best of luck in whatever you do-- Tink
 
I learned how to sharpen from watching youtube videos and practicing on some old stones my uncle gave me. The Wicked Edge takes a lot of the guess work out of the equation, but there is no substitute for a good understanding of what sharpening does and what "sharp" really is.
 
Awesome, thanks for the fast replies, very usefull insight too. I think you may be right Tink, I may get a WE and then on the side learn to sharpen on stones with "cheaper" knives.

I also agree with you bpeezer, I like the knowledge and experience being able to sharpen on real stones instead of a contraption that basically does it for you. Im only 20 but I'm very much into traditional stuff like film photography and whatnot
 
Ive been looking at the wicked edge but what worries me is some photos of knives Ive seen sharpened on it have very uneven bevels. The bevel is super thick near the tip and thinner near the heal. Seems you really have to be careful how you clamp the knife to avoid this.

I assume when sharpening freehand this isn't as much of an issue....but the learning curve is much greater...
 
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Redmasta said:
Ive been looking at the wicked edge but what worries me is some photos of knives Ive seen sharpened on it have very uneven bevels. The bevel is super thick near the tip and thinner near the heal. Seems you really have to be careful how you clamp the knife.
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Yeah I talked to someone and he said its just how it is with the WE although their website shows a little diagram of how to find the right angle/depth etc. and the solution seems to be moving the blade backwards (towards you) so the belly and tip are closer to the center of the pivot points on the arms.
 
Like you, I spent my Boy Scout years using an Arkansas stone, sharpening a variety of Gerbers, SAKs, and so on. So, I've recently purchased a new Arkansas stone after a years-long hiatus in my knife-enthusiasm. However, I've also purchased a Spyderco Sharpmaker as well, so I'll be covered no matter what. I myself have many fairly expensive knives at this point, and don't want to screw them up.
 
Yeah basically same thing I read, still worries me though. I'd have to experiment on some cheap kitchen knives first to see what the results are before i risk mutilating one of my nicer knives.

I assume they have a some sort of money back guarantee? The pro kit looks like the one to get but its big bucks...
 
Redmasta said:
I assume they have a some sort of money back guarantee? The pro kit looks like the one to get but its big bucks...
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Yeah i looked at the pro kit and for what its got its a lot better than the basic one just because it has a better range of stones and strops and it comes with the base even though making one wouldn't be too hard. I actually sold some stuff on ebay and managed to save up the $390. now its a matter of getting the WE or getting some nice Chosera waterstones. It just seems like the WE is more convenient but requires more setup. Although the am drawn to the "zen" of the waterstones and traditional sharpening style. But like you im too afraid to use my expensive knives
 
Have either of the two recent posts had any issues with the uneven bevels like red was talking about?
 
Blaketho said:
Awesome, thanks for the fast replies, very usefull insight too. I think you may be right Tink, I may get a WE and then on the side learn to sharpen on stones with "cheaper" knives.

I also agree with you bpeezer, I like the knowledge and experience being able to sharpen on real stones instead of a contraption that basically does it for you. Im only 20 but I'm very much into traditional stuff like film photography and whatnot
Click to expand...

I'm 22, I completely get where you're coming from. I think you will appreciate water stones if you have the patience to learn :)
 
Blaketho said:
Hey everyone new here, really hoping to get some insight especially from someone experienced in both worlds of the Wicked edge and traditional waterstone sharpening.

So thats pretty much the question, I am getting into knives and have a decent collection started of some nice knives $150 + range and I'm looking into sharpening/honing/maintenance stuff and I am torn between learning how to sharpen on a bench stone deal or getting a wicked edge that takes the guess work out of the angles. I have used a regular bench stone maybe once in my life on an old pocked knife years ago and I never had any real "training" if you will, on how to use a regular stone, hence why I turned to the Wicked Edge sharpening system.

If anyone can give me some pros and cons and how difficult it is to learn to sharpen on water stones that would be great.

My knives consist of a Boker Nano, Strider SnG, Paramilitary 2, ZT 0560, and a CRKT M2102. Im a little scared of sharpening a strider on a waterstone and messing the whole angle up and everything so thanks guys hope to hear from you.
Click to expand...

When I was much younger than I am now, I too learned to sharpen knives using Arkansas stones. I invested countless hours sharpening the same knife until I was able to get it respectably sharp. Fast forward 30 years, and I have really become addicted to really good U.S. made knives.

I purchased a WE pro pack II for the very reason that you have stated. I have some very expensive knives that I wanted to get scary sharp, but I did not want to screw them up. I also have a series of Japanese water stones. I will cover the WE first. The WE is very expensive for what it is, but it will do an excellent job at getting your knives scary sharp. It does have it's own learning curve and nuances as some have pointed out. If money is not that big of a deal, then you can certainly go for the WE. Clay and the folks at WE are top notch. With the WE community and Clay and his team factored in, one can argue that the price of this system is a pretty good value.

There is another school of thought regarding sharpening being taught by a very respected knife maker, Murray Carter. The one thing that cannot be argued about Murray's approach is that thinning the blade at each sharpening is absolutely essential in order to maintain the proper geometry over the life of the knife. The way he teaches this is to grind the secondary edge (Murray defines primary edge as the cutting edge, and the secondary edge as the side of the blade). The WE system only sharpens the primary edge, and over time and repeated sharpening, the blade primary (cutting) edge will get too thick to cut efficiently or effectively. So Murray teaches grinding the secondary edge (side of the knife) at each sharpening. However, I cannot bring myself to grind away the side of a beautiful tumbled finished blade that cost $500.00. Fortunately, I carry my expensive folders mainly strong side pocket and mainly for defensive purposes. Hence, I rarely use them and they do not require re-sharpening. I always carry a less expensive knife for general cutting tasks, and I always thin the blade (grind the secondary edge) when I sharpen. I have knives that I will grind the secondary edge and polish them on water stones, and grind the primary edge on the WE, at least until my freehand water stone skills get better.

So my goal is to become completely proficient at freehand sharpening using water stones. Murray teaches using a King 1,000 grit stone followed by a 6,000 grit stone. Once I get there, my WE system will go on EBay or will be given to children or grandchildren. To me, having the skill to put a face shaving edge on a bushcraft/survival knife freehand is the point that I want to get to. But developing this skill will take quite a lot of time, time that I do not have at present. But I still want to have scary sharp blades. Solution, WE system until the skill is fully developed. I use the water stones exclusively on all of my kitchen knives and cheaper or older knives that I have lying around, and I can get the kitchen knives scary sharp freehand. When I get to thicker blade materials is where I still need either further skill development or more patience.
 
I should also add that Murray states that every knife that he makes and sends to customers is not complete until the customer puts his/her own scratches, polish and patina on it. I should also add that I still am having a hard time brining myself to do this on the secondary edge of my expensive blades. Another issue, what do you do with coated blades like Sykco, Topps, Microtech and a host of other knives. The way I see it, is if I am using a knife hard, these coatings will get worn off and become pretty ugly, so why not grind them off by thinning the knife while sharpening it.
 
McVeyMac said:
When I was much younger than I am now, I too learned to sharpen knives using Arkansas stones. I invested countless hours sharpening the same knife until I was able to get it respectably sharp. Fast forward 30 years, and I have really become addicted to really good U.S. made knives.

I purchased a WE pro pack II for the very reason that you have stated. I have some very expensive knives that I wanted to get scary sharp, but I did not want to screw them up. I also have a series of Japanese water stones. I will cover the WE first. The WE is very expensive for what it is, but it will do an excellent job at getting your knives scary sharp. It does have it's own learning curve and nuances as some have pointed out. If money is not that big of a deal, then you can certainly go for the WE. Clay and the folks at WE are top notch. With the WE community and Clay and his team factored in, one can argue that the price of this system is a pretty good value.

There is another school of thought regarding sharpening being taught by a very respected knife maker, Murray Carter. The one thing that cannot be argued about Murray's approach is that thinning the blade at each sharpening is absolutely essential in order to maintain the proper geometry over the life of the knife. The way he teaches this is to grind the secondary edge (Murray defines primary edge as the cutting edge, and the secondary edge as the side of the blade). The WE system only sharpens the primary edge, and over time and repeated sharpening, the blade primary (cutting) edge will get too thick to cut efficiently or effectively. So Murray teaches grinding the secondary edge (side of the knife) at each sharpening. However, I cannot bring myself to grind away the side of a beautiful tumbled finished blade that cost $500.00. Fortunately, I carry my expensive folders mainly strong side pocket and mainly for defensive purposes. Hence, I rarely use them and they do not require re-sharpening. I always carry a less expensive knife for general cutting tasks, and I always thin the blade (grind the secondary edge) when I sharpen. I have knives that I will grind the secondary edge and polish them on water stones, and grind the primary edge on the WE, at least until my freehand water stone skills get better.

So my goal is to become completely proficient at freehand sharpening using water stones. Murray teaches using a King 1,000 grit stone followed by a 6,000 grit stone. Once I get there, my WE system will go on EBay or will be given to children or grandchildren. To me, having the skill to put a face shaving edge on a bushcraft/survival knife freehand is the point that I want to get to. But developing this skill will take quite a lot of time, time that I do not have at present. But I still want to have scary sharp blades. Solution, WE system until the skill is fully developed. I use the water stones exclusively on all of my kitchen knives and cheaper or older knives that I have lying around, and I can get the kitchen knives scary sharp freehand. When I get to thicker blade materials is where I still need either further skill development or more patience.
Click to expand...

Awesome reply, so pretty much get a wicked edge and water stones, and use the WE to sharpen nicer knives and practice with water stones and eventually be able to just use the water stones. I can imagine getting a mirror edge with free hand sharpening would feel really accomplishing.

My issue is I don't really have the money for both. I could get a WE or a nice set of stones. I could get both but I think that would end up around $800 and I would like to save at least some of my next paycheck.
 
I did basically this progression of "get guided and practice freehand" using an edgepro and one of heavyhanded's washboard systems. The washboard gives extra feedback using an acrylic plate that's gridded that you tack wet/dry sandpaper and computer paper loaded with compound over. It really helped me to get a feel for following the bevel heel-to-tip, and also provides a really nice stropping substrate for regular maintanence. It's less than $50 and would be a nice supplement to the WE or whatever other guided setup you choose.

I found on my edge pro that doing touchups was sort of a PITA when i had to get the system out, mechanically match the edge angle, strop, and put everything away. I imagine dealing with a clamp would add more time to the process. The washboard (or any other freehand strop) allows you to learn the muscle memory and body mechanics of following the perfect bevel that you put on with your guided system in significantly less time than using the guided system itself. That not only helps to refine your freehand technique but also makes you more likely to do regular edge maintenance, which should stretch out the intervals between needing to crack out the "big guns," so to speak.

Whatever you choose, I'd encourage you to look into a strop of some kind, and I'd personally recommend checking out the washboard system because it provides such positive feedback to let you know when you're on the flat of the bevel and when you're riding to high or low.

Enjoy the foray into sharpening and may the unicorn of "sharp enough" grace your blades often!

(I'm not in any way associated with heavyhanded outside of being a very satisfied customer!)
 
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SteelStickler said:
I found on my edge pro that doing touchups was sort of a PITA when i had to get the system out, mechanically match the edge angle, strop, and put everything away. I imagine dealing with a clamp would add more time to the process. The washboard (or any other freehand strop) allows you to learn the muscle memory and body mechanics of following the perfect bevel that you put on with your guided system in significantly less time than using the guided system itself. That not only helps to refine your freehand technique but also makes you more likely to do regular edge maintenance, which should stretch out the intervals between needing to crack out the "big guns," so to speak.

Whatever you choose, I'd encourage you to look into a strop of some kind, and I'd personally recommend checking out the washboard system because it provides such positive feedback to let you know when you're on the flat of the bevel and when you're riding to high or low.
Click to expand...

So youre saying use a WE or other system and learn to get the angle right on a strop since it doesnt mess up the blade at all and that lets you learn angles? thats a very good idea i never though of that
 
pretty much, yeah. There is still the threat that you round off your apex, but if you start with a more forgiving steel then it should be a great introduction to freehanding without the cost of a full stone setup and help save some time in the process.
 
SteelStickler said:
pretty much, yeah. There is still the threat that you round off your apex, but if you start with a more forgiving steel then it should be a great introduction to freehanding without the cost of a full stone setup and help save some time in the process.
Click to expand...

So you'd say get a WE and then grab a strop and get the technique down and later on try with stones? where abouts can I get the strops?
 
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