Winkler Combat Axe and Belt Knife with Trainers

jwaj

jwaj

Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
683
I picked these up for work a while back. I finally got around to making a trainer for the Combat Axe. I'm really liking both of these tools. Not a review, just sharing. If you guys are thinking about picking up a Winkler product, I highly recommend it. One of the greatest people you could ever deal with. Enough talk, here's some photos......
 
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Nice set of trainers, and of course the Combat Axe and belt knife are excellent I'm sure. These will be perfect for sparring and getting the feel for their lengths and edge placement.
I love my Sayoc RnD, and wanted one of those Combat Axes as well. But, my desire for something I could use in the woods has led me to place an order for the newly redesigned Camp Axe. I know it's probably overkill for basic camp chores, but I want that tapered tang/forward weight/chopping power all in a compact and lightweight tool.

IMO, the trainers are not only a safe way to get familiar with your tools/weapons for sparring, but they help preserve your edges. Yet, they are all so light that I feel that I'm missing something when solo training. So, I've started making the G-11 Sayoc, I've got it about 1/2 way cut out. It's ruined 7 jigsaw blades so far, that stuff is just so abrasive and it's 3/4" thick! My logic is based on weight, I want to practice with something close in weight and size, but without the edges. I'm making a tomahawk shaped impact weapon, I guess?

Here's a sneak peak pic...

winkler hawk.jpg
 
Jay: Thanks and I will post a follow-up when I get a few more training sessions in.

foxx: I saw that Camp Axe as well on Daniels updated website. Look forward to your impressions. I plan on making scales for my trainers. The weight is off as well as the grip. That G-11 is tough stuff. Will the overall weight be pretty close? Please post pictures when it's finished, it's looking great so far.
 
Jwaj, I have no idea what the weight will be, nor how it will be distributed. My assumtions are that a). it will be heavier than plastic, wood, or aluminium, b). I can "taper" the handle closer to the butt. I plan on sanding the handle first, getting that feeling as close to the real sayoc as I can. Then, I will be able to get an idea of how much to take away from the head. That amount will remain to be determined, and I may just end up rounding all the edges, or I could end up making a nice false edge, IDK.
 
Foxx,

Might be a good idea to weigh your Sayoc hawk and work that accordingly to your G-10 hawk. In fact try to practice this by closing your eyes. You should be more sensitive to the balance then.

I could be totally wrong.
 
Weight and balance are closely related, as far as the "feel" of something. Holding a baseball bat at the balance point, makes it feel light and nimble in hand, maybe more like a sword should feel.
I'm trying to make this one the same length, and the fatest part of the handle should be about the same size. Otherwise, it's the head that has the most play room in thickness and weight. That's where I'm hoping to achieve a very close "feel" to the real hawk. I have some obvious points to measure from, not just dimensions, but the balance point of the real one.
That may just be the most important factor, use the same balance point, and hope the weight is pretty close? I'll be able to take away from both ends as I go, and may be able to get the weight right, I can only try. All my others end up with a very close balance point to the real Sayoc, even without any tapering.
 
foxx said:
Nice set of trainers, and of course the Combat Axe and belt knife are excellent I'm sure. These will be perfect for sparring and getting the feel for their lengths and edge placement.
I love my Sayoc RnD, and wanted one of those Combat Axes as well. But, my desire for something I could use in the woods has led me to place an order for the newly redesigned Camp Axe. I know it's probably overkill for basic camp chores, but I want that tapered tang/forward weight/chopping power all in a compact and lightweight tool.

IMO, the trainers are not only a safe way to get familiar with your tools/weapons for sparring, but they help preserve your edges. Yet, they are all so light that I feel that I'm missing something when solo training. So, I've started making the G-11 Sayoc, I've got it about 1/2 way cut out. It's ruined 7 jigsaw blades so far, that stuff is just so abrasive and it's 3/4" thick! My logic is based on weight, I want to practice with something close in weight and size, but without the edges. I'm making a tomahawk shaped impact weapon, I guess?

Here's a sneak peak pic...

View attachment 298564
Click to expand...

I told you that G11 was TOUGH, looking good so far though.
 
Thanks Randy. I'm going to try to finish cutting it this weekend, I may get some sanding done as well.
 
Just curious Foxx and Jwaj,

How do you train with these? We might be able to talk more in the Practical Tactical.
Read recently about Michael Janich's Filipino Crossada training and i think the trainers will go well with it.
 
I have "messed around" with a few friends, slow motion experimenting of body mechanics, hooks, and distances. But, that's with a plastic trainer.
This G-10 hawk is an attempt to have more weight to work with an old tire or punching bag. I have some old wooden fence posts hanging in a small building. One is suspended in the center, and 3 more are tied to support beams of the 3 walls. I have been swinging the center post, while dodging it, I will strive to attack the other 3, and the one that's coming for me. In the past I have been training with real hawks, I should have started with something less dangerous. I've been lucky, and not hurt myself, but have had some close calls, hurt some knuckles for sure. These posts are predictable, and they don't have arms or legs, so it's limited. It does help with hawk/eye coordination, I can target an exact spot on the post, with it in motion. I do aim for head, neck, crotch, and knees, of someone my height. I also practice a few techniques of getting a spike back out of the wood in a quick motion. I'm really learning as I go.
I wanted to train with the Sayoc, but the front spike would seriously mess me up, or I could damage it. So, I've started making the G-11 trainer. I know it won't sink into the wood, so the shock will probably transfer into my hand, ouch. Thus, the plan to use a slightly softer target, old tire, cover the posts with carpet, I don't know yet.
A real instructor would be the best scenario, and live sparring with protection, and other weapons to defend against. I have to say I feel more confident with a hawk in hand, but this is my "version" of training, it's not the highest level by any measure.
 
Jay,
I train a lot at work and off duty. At work we have multiple training facilities and various types of equipment at our disposal (protective gear up to full-contact protection, simunition, blue, blank and airsoft guns, shoot houses, etc). I prefer not to post over in prac-tac, I've had enough SWAT debates to last 2 lifetimes.

Shoot me an email if you need drill or equipment ideas or any other questions.

Jim
 
Here's the G-11 hawk, free from it's block. I started sanding the lower handle as well, what a chore! Then I went out and beat on a fence post. Yes, it hits like a hammer, and yes the shock hurts my pinky. So far so good, it's very strong and tough, I think it could be used as a hammer or an impact weapon. Now the real difficult part starts, trying to copy Dan Winkler's excellent work. Mine is just a trainer, but I do hope to get close to the size and shape of the real one.


winkler hawk 008.jpgwinkler hawk 006.jpgwinkler hawk 007.jpg
 
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