working carbon fiber

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Aug 24, 2009
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So my idea is this: I will buy some carbon fiber cloth, and cut it to shape, layer it up with epoxy and put it under pressure (haven't decided on the method here yet), and voila done right? something tells me though that it cant be this easy, as I would have seen something like it before.

Also a couple of questions. 1. can I use regular epoxy, like JB weld,
2. can I sand and work it just like micarta or g10

this is the stuff I was thinking about getting
http://compositeenvisions.com/raw-fabric-cloth-2/carbon-fiber-glass-142/carbon-fiber-fiberglass-fabric-plain-weave-39-5-3k-6-1oz-721.html
Which is a carbon fiber and fiberglass mix, but other than that I cant tell what it really is.
 
Why go through all that bother? I'm sure the chemicals will be bad to work with. Even the production finished product should be used with care and a face mask of some sort. There are guys that have alergic reactions if the dust gets on their arms. I say spend your time making a great knife with a great finish and use the commercially made stuff,. Frank
 
Well in the simplest form, yes, it can be that easy. Yes you can use JB Weld, but it won't be best and being opaque you likely wouldn't see the cloth very well either. I have been working with CF cloth to repair my racebot and for many other people as well as al kinds of projects. One of my boats is entirely carbon.

Best bet would be to get some 282 carbon cloth, a good laminating epoxy like West Systems, a piece of glass (scratch free, new is best) about 50% bigger than your piece you will be working on, some cheap bristle brushes, neutral (clear) shoe polish, plastic spreaders like for bondo, and lots of rubber gloves.

If you are not familiar with safe practices for any of the materials involved, stop here. Carbon fiber can be deadly, you are carbon based afterall, so your body doesn't reject it if in yor lungs, eyes, skin, or other unpleasant areas.

The glass is going to be your work surface, and the shoe polish is your mold release. Coat the glass with as thin a coat as you can. Spread it on and buff it off with a dry paper towel. Pre cut your CF into the shape or size you want, lay them out somewhere close by. Mix your epoxy according to mfg, I measure by weight and use the two pot method.

Once your epoxy is thoroughly mixed pour some on the glass and spread it outa little bigger than your piece. Lay your first layer down and use the paint bush to help it "wet." Once it is wet take your second piece and lay it on top, and again using your brush to wet it with epoxy, repeat with as many layers as you want. For your first attempt I would take the epoxy and spread it out thin on another flat, preferably disposable surface like a pizza box. It will help dissipate the heat extending pot life.

For structural applications, alternating cloth orientation 45* helps tremendously. When doing a wet lay-up, it is very easy to get too much epoxy in the laminate. You want the least amount possible. When it comes to pressure there are a couple different ways; weight piled on top, clamps, or vacuum. I don't like using weights, as it usually has to be balanced, clamps are a good way, and I include any mechanical squishing, crushing, clamping, or squeezing in the catagory. It is what I use mostly.

Vacuum is the best method, also it can be quite lengthy to explain here, I have heard of people using "food savers" type vacuum sealing machines. If the part is small enough just place the whole thing in the bag and proceed to draw all the air out. On the glass, you would have to get a roll or two of seam sealant.

Frank is right, if you don't already have many of the materials it can be very expensive to make. Workin it can pose some challenges as well. "The rash," is a bitch, so suit up and use good respirators and dust collection.


Its getting late, and I am a little out of it, if you need more info let me know.

-Xander
 
Wow O.K., this doesn't sound like fun. I new there was a catch. I think your right, I'll leave it to the pros.
 
It can be fun if you want it to be, but like the advice above, it's messy, unhealthy, and I found it to be expensive. I still do it, to make things like scales with unidirectional fibers, or mix cf with something really light, or use a different weave, or interesting colors and textures, but it was always cheaper to buy standard product where available. I was making lightning strike composites years before I realized they were available.

Vac bagging helps a lot and saves a lot of epoxy during wetting out.

I use a 12 ton press to provide pressure on 6 by 10 inch plates, not as much pressure as I would like. You can use less but better to use more.

Epoxy by the gallon with neat pump systems, and plus 1 keep it cool during working!
 
do I have to buy the gallon jugs of epoxy, they are 4x as expensive as the CF Im planning on getting.
and what exactly is carbonfiber/fiberglass, anybody know anything about it.
will one square yard be enough?
 
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It's only barely worth it for me to buy epoxy in gallon jugs, smaller quantities would be worse... I found it was never worth it for me to just make my own cf plate, a yard didn't make much especially after adding my time and the resins. Only do this to satisfy yourself that you can or to get a specific blend, weave, whatever.

I have used blended cf hybrids, glass and kevlar, mainly for the look.

It can be a lot of fun, for example I used to laminate cf cloth onto skeletonized blade edges to make super light knife blades.

Wear a respirator even cutting the cf into rectangles, the fibers float everywhere. You can cut this down a bit by applying masking tape where you will cut, lots of scrap here, but definitely protect yourself when you sand the hardened goo back to get your billet. Use low viscosity epoxy with long pot life.
 
Great tips William.

I have done a little bit of epoxy and polyester resin work and recommend playing around with it a bit first. It takes some getting used to and isn't cheap.

You can get Bondo brand resin and hardener for cheap and it is decent stuff to play around with.
 
It can be a lot of fun, for example I used to laminate cf cloth onto skeletonized blade edges to make super light knife blades.
This is exactly what I m planing on doing, but just one or two knives. its a special experimental project.

Thanks for the Awesome tips and advice
 
Just one more question? wouldn't it be cool to make the sheath from carbon fiber cloth? but again I have not seen anything like this. it seems like it would be possible, and it would be super light, anything I should know?
 
Carbon fiber cloth is mostly for molding to shape. Not really worth it if you're just making plain plates for handles, but you could use it to encase a sheath for "bling". I wouldn't make the sheath out of it though. It is hard, will not conform to shape after hardening, and its terrible for edges.
 
thats a good point about it tearing up the edge, especially since my stuff is 1/2 fiberglass
 
do I have to buy the gallon jugs of epoxy, they are 4x as expensive as the CF Im planning on getting.
and what exactly is carbonfiber/fiberglass, anybody know anything about it.
will one square yard be enough?

I only use the expensive epoxy. . . and I have gone through almost 8 gallons this week. Bondo and similar resins can really suck to work with. I would only do so outside on a windy day.

Regarding the CF/FG hybrid, I use them on occasion. It is CF on the warp and FG on the woof, and is available in many weaves. Keep in mind the FG will take on the color of the resin you use. If clear, it turns clear. I dye the resin when using this product. It turns out interesting. Stay away from the kevlar and spectra hybrids.

FG and CF are tricky to work with. Unlike canvas they are slippery when wetted out, so if you have uneven platens or are trying to press a to small a piece is almost guaranteed to squish out the mold. An expensive quandry. . .

If a yard is enough? Do the math, the hybrid I have is .012" thick so to go 3/8 thick about 32 layers.
 
Just one more question? wouldn't it be cool to make the sheath from carbon fiber cloth? but again I have not seen anything like this. it seems like it would be possible, and it would be super light, anything I should know?

I have 'wet' molded custom kevlar lined carbon sheaths from neckers to swords. It can be done, but it needs to be well thought out.

Yes it is cool

good luck!
 
so i glued some up today, and the first thing i noticed is that it is basically the same as micarta, the only difference is that instead of burlap its carbon fiber. and since Micarta is plenty strong enough the only benefit, along with aesthetics is some weight loss
 
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That is what I have heard also (and not surprising that many composites would be similar).

I have a few friends that lay up and create structures with carbon (bicycle frames, and miscellaneous parts). The thing about it is...if you really want the satisfaction of doing it yourself and will really enjoy the feelings and characteristics of having something that is more your creation than a production piece that you sand, then by all means go for it.

OTOH, if you want nearly perfect uniformity, superior strength, and lower cost, it is generally better to by commercially produced composites.

There will always (hopefully) be people like you that want to do more of the process them self and enjoy the uniqueness of the results. I look forward to seeing yours!
 
Just one more question? wouldn't it be cool to make the sheath from carbon fiber cloth? but again I have not seen anything like this. it seems like it would be possible, and it would be super light, anything I should know?

did that with foam core to make a scabbard for a cf blade with m2 edge, in sheath this 8" knife weighed about an ounce
 
I am planing on doing the same, but with a tungsten carbide edge.

If I were to make a CF sheath, how would I get the blade out while it is setting up, and how would I apply enough pressure to make it light.
 
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