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Would you buy a knife under those terms?

Discussion in 'FEEDBACK: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly!' started by Triton, Oct 16, 2020.

  1. Triton

    Triton Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    I was perusing the for sale by individuals forum as I'm sure most of us do. I noted a particular knife where the seller stated that their terms of sale were that once they had dropped the knife off at the post office it was the buyer's problem.

    First let me stipulate that I don't believe that the seller is doing anything ethically or morally wrong. They are very clear with their sales terms.

    That said, would you buy a knife under those terms? Personally as a seller I never ship without insurance and have every expectation that if something goes awry during shipping that it's MY problem. I issue a refund and then pursue the insurance. Fortunately this is not a common occurrence but that is the way I operate.

    I can't help thinking about all the things that can go wrong. Packages can disappear into the ether. Packages can arrive without items inside. Packages can be delivered to bad addresses. Porch pirates can make a raid (signature confirmation solves this problem).

    What say you?
  2. Vaporstang

    Vaporstang Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 8, 2014
    If it is sold in and shipped in the US and PP G&S is used, then PP will side with the buyer regardless. I assume the seller is unaware of who's responsible for shipping.

    If shipping Internationally, I can understand using these terms. Not sure on the legalistic of it though...
    OilMan, tyyreaun and annr like this.
  3. abcdef


    Oct 28, 2005
    I generally make sure the knife is insured by the seller. Fortunately, I have always received my purchases, although several times from honest individuals who received the parcels in error.

    My wonder is, sans signature confirmation, will the USPS pay a claim if their records show a package was delivered? Can't they show it as delivered to the correct address by mistake, as several of mine have been? Some day I will go gold and try to sell my accumulated knives, and this issue is one of extreme concern. Sorry to digress.
  4. Quiet

    Quiet "That guy" Platinum Member

    Oct 11, 2013
    Those guys can say "It's the buyer's problem" all they want, when in reality, you can just have Paypal reverse the charge, and get your money back. Whoever the doofus was who posted that would find out VERY fast that no, it's not "the buyer's problem" at that point.

    So, A. NEVER USE FRIENDS AND FRIGGIN' FAMILY and B. Sure, I'd still buy from a guy who said that, I'd just smile and nod along, knowing the whole time that if an issue happened with the knife in transit, I would be getting my money back whether dudebro agreed to it or not.
  5. Quiet

    Quiet "That guy" Platinum Member

    Oct 11, 2013
    The comments made by the "seller" in the OP also show that that seller doesn't know who USPS insurance is supposed to be for. Hint: it's not the buyer.
    000Robert, bigsurbob, mycough and 3 others like this.
  6. Norcaldude

    Norcaldude Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 19, 2014
    I'd probably skip dealing with that person. The attitude displayed by including a comment like that in their for sale post sounds like somebody I don't want to deal with.
    Some people are just annoying and life is too short.
  7. knifeswapper

    knifeswapper Knife Peddler Dealer / Materials Provider

    Sep 3, 2004
    That particular wording would definitely be off-putting. But, sadly, anyone that ships much stuff has seen issues arise that needed to have protections going forward.

    Scenario #1: Seller ships a package with insurance to buyer. Package is scanned delivered; but buyer reports that the box had a hole in it and no knife was inside. Sends pictures, et.al. Seller files for insurance, but is denied because the package was delivered with no delivery notes about any damage to the package. Buyer eats the knife.

    Just the cost of trading knives of BF?

    Scenario #2: Seller ships a package with insurance to buyer. Package is scanned delivered; but buyer reports porch pirates must have stolen the package. Insurance claim denied just as in #1.

    Is it the sellers fault that the buyer did not properly secure the delivery?

    Scenario #3: International delivery makes it all the way to the Ukraine but the package arrives to buyer with customs tape and no knife.

    Is it the sellers fault that a foreign government employs knife lovers?

    Put yourself in the sellers position in these scenarios. Many sellers can't afford to take such losses that are seemingly neither parties fault.

    Now, realize that all three scenarios can, and have, happened with both salt of the earth buyers and by crooks. There is no difference in the stories other than one is a lie and the buyer shows up three months later trading the knife on the forum. Does this make a difference? Is so, how do you protect against it?

    Just being devils advocate for a little understanding from both sides. But I do understand that the vast majority of scenarios are more clear cut.

    Funny story on a different tangent. Had a customer early in the week place an order and request signature delivery due to porch pirates. I paid extra myself to do "Adult Signature" which took $5 first class shipping to $14 (because I have seen general signature required ignored). Customer called aggravated because he walked out to go to the store and the "Adult Signature" required package was sitting on his porch.
    duramax, Tjstampa and Vaporstang like this.
  8. sf fanatic

    sf fanatic Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 4, 2017
    You are the kind of seller that I’d like to do business with. For me as a buyer it comes down to how much risk am I willing to take to save a few bucks on the cost of a knife. I’m willing to incur the extra postage cost for any purchase over $50 which is I believe the cut off on Priority Mail insurance before the insurance cost goes up.
  9. Insipid Moniker

    Insipid Moniker Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 28, 2011
    I wouldn't buy from them because they've displayed complete ignorance of their responsibility as a seller, but their statement holds no actual weight, so I don't blame those that would shrug and buy anyway. It's the equivalent of those, "I DON'T GIVE FACEBOOK PERMISSION," posts that used to make the rounds regularly.
    bigsurbob, Quiet, mycough and 5 others like this.
  10. badglide9705

    badglide9705 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 16, 2016
    This came up in my mind a couple of years ago and I posted a question on another forum. I, as a seller can't control what happens after I mail a package. I wanted to do as this guy in question. I wanted to wash my hands of it at mailing. The response was overwhelmingly that I am responsible. Just as Quiet pointed out. The scenario that totally convinced me was If I order an item from Cabelas, Bass pro, or any other retailer, and it never showed up, would I hold that retailer responsible? You bet I would! Most everybody would! And that retailer is most likely going to make it right. We are no different. You buy a knife from me, I have to get it to you. You don't want to take that chance, don't sell on the internet.
  11. JJ_Colt45

    JJ_Colt45 Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 11, 2014
    Short answer ... the selling is responsible for the package getting to you. But as stated in the various scenarios it isn't quite that simple. There will always be a risk involved buying or selling. That's why I wish every transaction on here was required to leave feedback good or bad so there was a complete picture of all parties involved and you could make your choice having that information. As it is I have had a bad experience online selling and that has caused me to be much pickier in who I sell to. I don't like being that way bu ttaking a big loss will make you consider it more. That won't solve every issue but it would at least give the most possible information.
    badglide9705 likes this.
  12. Sirquest2k


    Jan 30, 2016
    One of the things I have personally seen with USPS in my area, is that signature confirmation is not a "thing" (according to local USPS) since COVID. Had a mailman leave the box at my door without requiring signature. That being said, the Terms of Sale put in that manner do not instill confidence in that the seller is willing to work with you if something should go wrong.
    badglide9705 likes this.
  13. Peter Hartwig

    Peter Hartwig Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 29, 2008
    In general NO. I usually just move on quickly unless it was something very hard to find. If it was rare find, I might proceed with some discussion. On a deal like that I would worry more about proper packaging(and good as described) , then the USPS part-that can be fixed.
    But as others have said PP would not accept the waiver, and it is not proper form in general
    rdtshaw, bonky and badglide9705 like this.
  14. timos-

    timos- KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 22, 2012
    in industry that would be called "packages ship collect" so the buyer would be directly paying shipping costs and would then legally be the one who has to deal with any problems once its dropped off at the PO.

    The buyer would create a "click n ship" usps label, email it to the sender so they can affix it to the package.
  15. LastRodeo

    LastRodeo Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Nov 2, 2013
    Thanks for sharing that info. I have still been paying for "signature required". Good to know that it's been a waste of money.
  16. Sirquest2k


    Jan 30, 2016
    Just in case there is clarification, Im not sure this is a widespread practice of USPS, but may be a local practice or even as a mailman is comfortable with interacting with customers. When I inquired at my local USPS office, they indicated that Sig confirmation was not to be expected, or even bypassed to where they only leave a "pink ticket" requesting that you pick it up. Not very reassuring on their part, and at that no consistency. But, as we have all seen, customer service doesnt seem to be a big practice nowadays.


    Oct 31, 1998
    I wouldn't agree to those stipulations, so I would pass on sale. Paypal doesn't care if buyer agreed to the risk and would side with the buyer. That said if you proceed with the transaction after accepting the terms by making the purchase, the buyer should keep his word in the event that the shipment gets lost,damaged or stolen.
  18. LastRodeo

    LastRodeo Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Nov 2, 2013
    I can't call the local post office for every package I send and find out if they have unique practices. If any office or carrier has the option to opt out, I'm not paying for it anymore.
    knifeswapper and Sirquest2k like this.
  19. Heirphoto

    Heirphoto Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 13, 2007
    I agree the seller is responsible. To me legally or not, morally it is up to me as a seller to be sure it gets delivered intact.

    Also morally if I were to buy, despite that sellers selfish terms, I have morally agreed to them and am just as wrong to try and go after them if something goes lost.

    Doing "the right thing" goes both ways.
    TOMBSTONE likes this.
  20. skyhorse

    skyhorse Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 30, 2010
    Only the mailer can file the claim on a lost parcel, so no way would I agree to do a transaction with this seller.

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