WW1 Trench Knife

S

Sierra912

Joined
Dec 9, 2001
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Have always been a fan of the WW1 brass knuckle trench knife. There's some good history on this knife out there, and both original and replica models are available. I know of one maker who has found the knuckle portion and builds blades for these, then mates the two together creating his own version of the "knuckle duster".

As far as being a pure fighting knife to the Nth degree the WW1 trench knife is a fine example of this. Double edged, with a skull crusher pommel and pointed brass knuckles which likewise provide for protection of the hand via the knuckles and a very impressive guard, the trench knife can be used in both the forward and reverse grip with devestating results.

Scabbards are difficult to find (original) but one can have either leather or Kydex sheathes made for this fine little weapon of war.

Anyone else out there a fan of the Trench Knife? Additional information or thoughts?
 
Always liked the design... never owned one (I dont think I've ever handled on even? Might have at some gun-show, but if so I have no memory of it.)

Am curious tho, Who is the maker you mentioned thats re-creating these knives? (if its okay to say.)
 
Oh I love them. Unfortunately I will never be able to carry one. I like my knives to have a use to me besides being cool to walk around the house with. If I could carry one I would pick one up in a heartbeat. But as it stands I think I would get toasted for carrying one. Lets see, knucks, double edged, no utility purpose to speak of (unless you get a lot of utility from busting people's heads open, which in that case you are probably already familiar with the laws about these sort of things.) I think it would be a bad idea for me to have one. Too tempting!
 
I think one of the reasons we see so little about these knives is that they are a) illegal almost everywhere because of the brass knucks and double-edged blade, and b) so purpose-focused as to be useless for most everyday activities (chopping, breaking down boxes, etc.) Additionally, the design allows for only one grip (well, two; forward and reverse) which means that those who pursue knife-related arts find their options in terms of blade manipulation limited. I would suggest that this was not a detriment for WWI infantryman, however.

I'm lacking in any sort of real experience with one of these knives, but I can definitely see how the design has many strengths in the combative realm...enhanced blocking, total grip retention, etc. However, from what I have read of WWI, combat was dominated by artillery at long ranges, the machine gun at medium, and by grenades up close. I think e-tools and bayonets were probably used more than any knife for hand-to-hand combat, and I honestly have to wonder how much use these knives saw in the purposes for which they were designed; were I to charge or defend a trench, I'd rather have a rifle with a spike on the end or a sharpened shovel than a knife simply for range issues. Don't forget that mobility was also extremely limited by the conditions found in trenches, as well as the amount of gear individuals had to carry (weapons, gas-masks, ammunition, explosives, wire-cutters, and more), so the idea of enhanced mobility making up for shorter range seems less relevant to me in this instance. Just my opinion, it's worth what you paid for it. ;)

EDMF (Eight Dollar Mountain Foundry) makes some very hard-working knuckle-duster knives; I believe they have a website at www.edmfknifes.com
 
I've been a "fan" of trench warfare for a number of years, and the impression I've gotten from reading is that these knives were not particularly useful. As a previous poster stated you have a fixed grip, and crawling around no-mans land, cutting wire, sliding through a muddy trench etc. put a premium on flexibility of grip. They were also heavy and awkward.
In the trenches themselves various versions of bludgeons, coshes, and clubs seem to have been popular and effective.
Nonetheless I also feel a fondness for the trench knife family (and smatchets!). I think it has a place - as does my ATC hawk - in the home. Close quarters; very familiar; and reasonably flexible.
As a side-note: southern chinese butterfly knives used in Hung Gar and Wing Chun look a lot like "trench cleavers". The knuckle duster is more of a hand guard than striker but there's no wise old sage who says you CAN'T smack somoeone upside the head with it :)
 
I have a EDM Foundry Smachet without the handguard and it is heavy-in well put together way. I am torn between the WWI knuckle knife and one with a Bowie blade any suggestions ?
 
It is a scary lookin' knife to be sure. I understood that the chief complaint among its users was that the stilleto-style blade was too thin at the ricasso and tended to snap off. Of course, they were probably using it to open bean tins and ammo boxes when this happened. I may be wrong, but I think the bowie-blade version was a later design.

If you must justify owning one, you can argue that it would be a fairly servicable "main gauche".
 
Agreed. Carrying one of these today on the streets would be a bad thing:eek:

Am way familiar with the good folks at the Mountain Foundry from our daze at FK. Great knives! Al Mar thought the world of their product line.

The WW2 Trench Knife was one of many, many close quarters fighting weapons introduced into the fray. Hand to hand was frequent and bitter during the war, and is recorded as such in many excellent books, fiction and non-fiction, to include "All Quiet on the Western Front" (a classic).

"Hate" belts were likewise present, these a development by the soldiers themselves for CQB. They would drive nails, pins and metal insignia taken from dead enemy soldiers, and other items into their heavy leather equipment belts. These could then be whipped off at a moment's notice and swung / wrapped around the fist as a flexible bludgon. I've seen excellent examples of this locally and at the Brit. War Museum in London.

The Trench Knife actually came in several different models to include one variation featuring a wooden handle, stamped steel "duster", and triangular blade. I've heard the same about the TK's blade breaking at the ricasso but I've heard this same tired old story about the WW2 commando dagger, Gerber MK2, the KA-BAR, and so on. Most often if such blades snapped it was because they were being used as crowbars and not knives...or war production had lowered the quality of the steel being used and/or the tempering process. Many such knives do not feature a full tang but more of a rat tail tang which is both round and thin. It is easy to see why such a tang would snap if used in an inappropriate manner.

Trench Knife variations such as the one noted as being a modern introduction make use of located WW1 grips (very rare, most often found in antique stores or garage sales) with new blades mated to these. Any good knife maker can do this if he or she entertains such a project.

CQB with the knuckle duster version is a learned skill just is anything else. Strengths and weaknesses of the weapon are a given.

Two movies where the brass knuckle version played a leading role include a Dirty Harry film (#2, I think:confused: ) and Lee Marvin made good use of one in "The Big Red One".

Collector items, yes. And rich with history.
 
The ones from EDMF are ok IMO. I like the looks of the ones whose handles were entirely brass and has a seperate brass loop for each finger. If I was going to pick one up it would be one of those.
 
Anybody see the latest issue of SOF magazine? The 10th trooper on the cover looks like he is carrying a "trench knife". Anybody recognize it?
 
Don:

As usual, great article. Also liked the yawara article. Can't wait for the fistload article to come out!
 
Cool article, Don. I wonder, in places where a CCW permit allows you to carry any weapon concealed is it still illegal to carry brass knuckles? I know in places like this people can sometimes carry auto knives and was just curious as to what you think on the subject.
 
Maryland has an exemption in the deadly weapons law, all deadly weapons; knuckles, bowies, dirks, daggers, slungshots, blackjacks, saps, billies, switchblades...any prohibited weapon, to any law enforcement officer as a part of equipment, etc., any LEO sojourning in the State or on Official Business and anyone who has a permit to carry a handgun. These things can be carried...

The annointed few who are business owners or politically affiliated. That's all I know about this State.

Florida does not have a CHL, they have CCW, does not state handgun/firearm, states, Concealed Carry Weapons. As far as I know, a Citizen of Florida could carry anything on that with the exception of a Ballistic Knife, that is until a Judge Ruled with the stroke of a pen that all Switchblades, because of their spring, were "Ballistic" Knives... So it goes...
 
Originally posted by weaponhead
Looks like a United Cutlery knife to me......the Sentry model
Click to expand...
Something I'd love to see made with good steel, and a cast aluminium handle, with longer more oval finger holes... I like how these feel in my hand, but they are such a POS IMO, and the rubber handle material sucks and wouldnt make it viable as a knuckle-knife.
 
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