WWII review and Himalayan Imports resale value

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Oct 11, 2012
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There have been a few HI knives on eBay recently, and when they sell, they sell for decent money. What could be done to improve the aftermarket on them? The famous knife makers do limited runs of certain types of knives to ensure aftermarket supply is always smaller than demand, but that style of business wouldn't work for knives that are "traditional" in the sense that they have time-test designs and manufacturing techniques.

As it is, my best guess is that the unpredictable supply of new blades is what might encourage people to buy them in the aftermarket, but only once awareness of HI quality leads to an increase in demand. Perhaps there could be improvements in the consistency of each blade, but even more important would be modern handle designs. I tried to buy someone's rehandled HI kukri, and I offered silly money. You know what the guy said? "NO!" Seriously, the guy was selling blades that cost hundreds of dollars, and the one he wouldn't sell for any amount was his modern-rehandled HI kukri. Hint, hint...

Here you can see photos of the WWII I bought from this forum:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1000346-Three-blems-for-10-12

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Here is what it looked like right after I put a patina on it:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Khukuri-patina-photos?p=11437780#post11437780

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My patina has mellowed a lot, and it's more even and attractive now, but I don't have photos of it handy yet. Maybe later... [Edit: added photos!]

I love my WWII, even with its goofy traditional palm-poker handle. I figured out that a looser grip let's the kukri do the work, and also allows the palm-poker to slip past my palm without leaving its "mark". Choking up on the handle is a lot more comfortable too. That, and leather work gloves seem to help a lot. Eventually I'm probably going to get a big belt sander and grind the palm poker off.

Although I don't like the traditional handles, I've spent hours examining the subtle beauty of the blade on my WWII. It has curves on its curves, kind of like many other beautiful things in this world (1979 Corvette!). The shape of the edge grind varies from razor-like hollow grind to convex, depending on where it is on the blade.

The parts that get the most force on them have a the strong convex grind, in the sweet spot where the curve near the tip of the blade strikes its target. The tip of the blade has what looks more like the saber grind that you see on swords and other thrusting weapons like spear heads, which need a compromise in strength and cutting ability.

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Closer to the handle, you get the razor-like convex edge that is also well suited for precision cutting of less tough things. I use it for cutting fruit that fits there perfectly.

Once my blade had a mature patina on it, you could clearly see what was hardened and how much it was hardened, in addition to the areas that weren't hardened at all. The patina shimmers with glossy blue, gray, and red colors. It's gorgeous how the colors change in the light, and photos don't do it justice.

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The tip is hardened, but not as much as the convex-edge sweet spot further down that does most of the heavy-duty work. The sweet spot is hardened a bit deeper into the blade, which probably gives the knife greater longevity over decades of heavy use and resharpening. The razor-like convex edge portions of the blade are just as heavily hardened as the sweet spot, but it is hardened much shallower to ensure plenty of strength to support hard edge and keep it from cracking. You can see the hardened areas quite clearly with the patina. For whatever reason, the hardened areas patinate quite differently from the rest of the blade, which is quite attractive.

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Although the knife blade is quite thick - it looks to be about 3/8 of an inch to me - it is still flexible enough that I can get it to bend a very tiny amount by hand. It is spring steel, after all. Obviously, this knife is meant to bend instead of break when it is abused. I would love to try cutting open tin cans and mangled highway vehicles. I have no doubt this blade could do it if I ever need it in an emergency. I laugh when I see guys in suits and ties with their dinky little "glass breaker & seatbelt cutter" gadgets in their cars. My WWII could chop it to powdery bits and that's after it cuts apart the entire car!

Some higher quality blades have grooves on them to prevent sticking after chopping or cutting something flexible and/or wet. The Dui Chirra kukri shows that design quite well, with 2 wide grooves along the length of the blade. From photos, you can't see anything like that on the WWII blades, and when I first got mine, I saw and felt nothing more than flatness. But, after slicing up some gooey avocados, I noticed that they didn't stick to my WWII blade. I put it on flat glass, and I could see that my WWII had 2 long and very slight depressions that are very similar to the Dui Chirra!

Those grooves are the reason that my fruit was not sticking to the WWII blade, and although I haven't chopped wood or greenery with it yet, I'm sure that is why my WWII's bladesmith ("kami") decided to put such slight grooves into the blade. At first I thought the grooves are far too subtle to be intentional - there's so slight that you can't see or feel them - but they're on both sides of the blade, and they were hammered into the blade somehow, so they're definitely intentional. I would guess that they are no deeper than about 0.015 inches - that's 15 thousandths of an inch. It's too little depth to see or feel, but it's definitely there, and the fruit and wood will not be able to get a tight grip on the blade because of them.

It is absolutely obvious that these blades from Himalayan Imports are made to be used, and they are about as perfect as a blade can be. They have features like those slight grooves I discovered that make the blade a more efficient tool, but that you could never see in marketing photos. People who own these blades are supposed to judge their quality by how well they WORK, not by how expensive they are or how pretty they are, or by who is selling them.

If people were more aware of how refined and perfected these blades are - not because someone says they're the best, but instead because I can point out to you all these fancy hard working features that the kami put into the blade - then I think the demand for these knives would create a stronger aftermarket and improved resale values. If I knew that I could sell my HI kukri for nearly the same price I paid for it (or more), then why should I hesitate to buy as many knives as I want to collect?

For now, my WWII is MINE, so I won't get to test its resale value any time soon. I love it - I've always wanted a kukri, and I think I got the perfect one for me. It was blem with a cracked handle, so I got it for a good price that makes me feel comfortable with using the blade, and exploring its capabilities. Honestly, considering its quality, it was a fantastic bargain. Knives of inferior detail and quality can easily cost 10 times as much from a well-known maker.

That is probably why Himalayan Imports has such a fiercely loyal collector base. It appears I have been baptized into the ranks :)
 
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Thanks for sharing your observations, kookery. Another factor affecting HI resale value would be the kamis who made them. I know blades made by former kamis Sher, Bura, Seargent K, and others are very desirable. Someday, I'm sure blades made by Tirtha, Bhakta, Rajkumar, et al will be just as desirable once they retire and new kamis take over.
 
Yeah, these things hold their value especially if they aren't used and come from a desirable kami who has retired/moved away. Bura is not my absolute favorite kami as I never felt the connection to his blades that I did to Sher or Kumar and now Tirtha. However, as Bura is no longer able to work, his pieces are going to command higher prices as time goes on.

That said, if this thread turns into one about how to squeeze more money out of selling a pre-owned HI product, I'm going to lock it up. This is Yangdu's showroom, and maximizing your resale value puts ZERO money in her pocket. I'm keeping this one open because it was a long eloquent and earnest post, but if it turns into a "tricks of the trade" regarding flipping khuks, then this thread is getting killed.
 
Thank you for the pictures. I love seeing used blades. :)
 
Kookery, I know you are obsessed with getting a HI blade with a micarta or G10 handle and all I can say is it will never happen from HI direct. It is a project that you must either do yourself or have done. I made my own for an e-nep and while it was very time consuming it is doable.

I think HowardWallace has a photo tour of the HI workshops. Once you see these I think you will understand where we are all coming from. There is just no way the kamis can work any faster or harder than they already do.
 
This is Yangdu's showroom, and maximizing your resale value puts ZERO money in her pocket.

That is absolutely 100% hopelessly wrong. The easiest way to get a HI kukri is from Yangdu. Buyers of everything are hesitant, just because that's the way it is when parting with hard earned-money. If buyers know they can sell their kukri in the aftermarket for nearly as much or more than it costs them to buy it from Yangdu, then that "buyer hesitation" will almost totally evaporate, and Yangdu will simply have more buyers. Those buyers will prefer to buy immediately from the posts she makes here, instead of waiting forever to buy something on the aftermarket.

I've been trying to buy on the aftermarket, and guess what? There's almost never anything available because PEOPLE DON'T SELL. The reason they don't sell is because people collect and/or use the knives they buy from HI. As HI's customer base continues to grow, it maintains the profitable imbalance of demand being larger than supply. Another huge factor that maintains that imbalance is the fact that HI's knives are such great user knives. That means if a buyer wants his own 100% new blade, he will have to get it from Yangdu. I have been trying to buy new or used - and they are simply unavailable on the aftermarket.

Those facts aren't obvious, and they're kind of advanced business strategies. But, companies like Toyota advertise their market-leading resale value to make buyers more comfortable with buying a new vehicle. Toyota actively cultivates their used vehicle market to ensure people will take used vehicles off the market as quickly as they arrive. Toyota does this by certifying used vehicles as being problem-free. The effect is that used Toyotas are quite expensive to the point that it costs only a little more to get a new vehicle. For people who can afford it, who wouldn't prefer to have a new vehicle instead of a used one? Toyota never has to worry about used vehicles competing with new ones for sales.

I don't think there's any need to discuss how to "flip" HI kukris. I'm sure anyone that wanted to sell theirs for top dollar would have no trouble selling it. In other words, the supply-demand equation that a company needs in order to exploit profit benefits from a strong aftermarket are already in place for Himalayan Imports. Basically, any company selling a durable product of high quality will have a strong aftermarket for their products. The companies that thrive are the ones that recognize and accept that fact, and turn it to their benefit. The companies that struggle or fail are the ones that fight against by wrongly thinking that aftermarket sales are competing with new sales.

The companies that thrive with a strategy of suppressing or discouraging the aftermarket are the ones that sell low quality and/or non-durable products. Electronics, perishable food, etc are a few examples of companies where there is a very weak or non-existent aftermarket, which is always properly accepted and exploited by the companies involved. Any company that doesn't recognize the kind of aftermarket they have for their products will not thrive as much as they could, and in fact, most of them fail eventually and go out of business.

I want a blem Chiruwa Ang Khola so I can remove the handle and put my own on it. I have been unable to buy one, new or used. I spent some time studying the resale value of HI kukris when a few of them finally appeared on the market recently. Their performance was pretty good, and that got me to thinking that maybe I should forget about rehandling a blem CAK, and instead just buy a new one with no worries. If I eventually decide I must have a custom handle, I could still keep it and enjoy it NOW, and then sell it for close to what I paid for it when I finally find the blem CAK I've been waiting for.

As it usually goes for collectors, if I know I can sell any time for a good price, then I probably wouldn't bother selling. Instead, I would just keep both an original CAK for its traditional collector appeal, and my customized rehandled CAK as a "user" to actually use and enjoy in practical tasks.

Hopefully that makes it 100% clear why you MUST accept and encourage strong aftermarket values for HI products to maximize the value that HI customers receive, as an indirect step towards maximizing the value that Yangdu receives in her sales.

Thanks for sharing your observations, kookery. Another factor affecting HI resale value would be the kamis who made them. I know blades made by former kamis Sher, Bura, Seargent K, and others are very desirable. Someday, I'm sure blades made by Tirtha, Bhakta, Rajkumar, et al will be just as desirable once they retire and new kamis take over.

Shaggy, thanks for that info about the most desirable kamis! That will help me a lot in choosing blades to buy for my collection that retain their values. I agree about the current kamis too. My WWII was made by Tirtha, and as you've seen me describe already, the attention to detail is impressive. I'm very interested in getting a knife from Rajkumar, since he seems to be a rising star. Putting money into knives made by HI's best kamis seems to be a safe store of value that I can cash out of any time, so I am feeling increasingly comfortable with the idea of buying more kukris than I really need (it's like a bank account). I guess that will make me a collector as soon as I buy my second one.

My WWII is a great all-around blade, but I just want to feel the power of a Chiruwa Ang Khola in my hands :) I'm also becoming interested in the swords the kamis are making. I've been reading about Japanese katanas, and although they have an excellent reputation for quality and durability, my study of the work by HI kamis gives me confidence that they can make blades that are possibly a bit better in quality, and they cost a tiny fraction of the price for a traditional Japanese blade.

As it turns out, the complaints I have about Nepali traditionalism in the design of their kukri handles have a counterpart in Japanese traditionalism in the steel they use in their swords. The traditional Japanese steel and swordmaking techniques are capable of making quality blades, but they're actually inferior to the 5160 forging that HI kamis use! The traditional Japanese steel is just not in the same class as modern steels, and I suspect a HI kami can make a katana for a few hundred dollars that is possibly better than an original Japanese katana that costs tens of thousands of dollars. Won't that be a nice surprise!

I came up with this idea when I decide the best light machete would probably be a katana. The only reason people don't use traditional katanas as machetes is because their thin blades require expensive steel and forging techniques to make them strong enough for battle, compared to a traditional machete that costs less than $10 and gets thrown away when its no longer useful.

With the affordable price and high quality of Himalayan Imports blades, I think my ideal machete might be a katana or other sword from HI! I was considering getting an expensive 1311 from Scrap Yard (Bussekin) for around $300, but for the same money, I could get a bigger and more functional blade from HI. From there, I started thinking about the logic behind my plans to collect Busse Kin blades over HI blades, and for practical purposes, HI wins. For collector purposes, the only thing I wasn't sure about was HI's resale value. Seeing a few of them sell recently in the aftermarket for the same price as a new one has begun to persuade me that maybe HI is what I really want, instead of Busse or Bussekin.

I can certainly build a nice collection of both user and collector blades, at much more affordable prices, if I go with HI. So, I reviewed what the experienced Busse and Bussekin collectors were buying, and I noticed that all of my favorite people had already sold their expensive Busse Kin blades, but none of them are willing to part with their HI blades. That says a lot, right there. In fact, there may not be much else to know, since the decision starts to become obvious at that point.

HI blades just might be the "ultimate" company to buy knives from...
 
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Great Company, Top Kamis, premium product, and everything else takes care of itself.

Note: Although some people like them, putting a patina (or Rust Finish) on a knife lowers it's resale big time (IMO).
 
kookery, your reasoning is...well, very broad. Yangdu does not have trouble growing the business based on demand. HI's stock of knives is almost totally dependent on social/civil properties in Nepal. You can fancy up the handles or take pages out of the Toyota playbook or whatever, the fact of the matter is that there is only so much coal to go around, so much steel, and so much money that you can give to the Maoists to look the other way so that you can get your shipment out.

However, a thread going on and on and on about resale value does not DIRECTLY put money in Yangdu's pocket. It's the same reason that a lot of video game and movie companies aren't so keen on places selling used copies of their product. They see no money from these sales.

So, once again, we can wax philosophical about this, but at the end of the day if you are asking how to make a khuk more desirable in the aftermarket, it does not put money in Yangdu's pocket today.
 
I highly recommend that you do get a knife from Rajkumar.

I don't want to make it seem like any other Kamis aren't as good or as desirable because I have bought 15 HIs and have been more than happy with all of them but I can't help but have a favorite.

So, that being said in my humble opinion the ones I have by Rajkumar really stand out as excellent in every conceivable way. Attention to detail, cosmetics, initial sharpness, etc. I have 5 knives from him and they are all absolutely perfect. I do have a CAK by Lacchu that I feel the same way about as well though.
 
Although some people like them, putting a patina (or Rust Finish) on a knife lowers it's resale big time (IMO).

I agree, but I wanted my kukri to be MY KUKRI, if you know what I mean. I bet a lot of people feel that way too, and that's probably why we almost never see them getting put up for sale once they find a home. Do most of those people put patinas on them, or let them form? I would be curious how many people end up with patinas versus how many prefer to keep them shiny and polished. I'm sure a lot of hard core collectors like to worship the original untouched surfaces too.
 
Is this the guy?

http://www.himalayan-imports.com/khuk2.html

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He looks like the type of fellow that doesn't mess when it comes to his blades.

That is a different Kami.

Look up Yangdu's and Karda's threads around the time of the Puja special. THere were lots of pics there of the Kamis and families celebrating and if I remember right I think Rajkumar and Tirtha are even related by marriage. It was a nice thread and I liked putting faces to all of the names.
 
I agree, but I wanted my kukri to be MY KUKRI, if you know what I mean. I bet a lot of people feel that way too, and that's probably why we almost never see them getting put up for sale once they find a home. Do most of those people put patinas on them, or let them form? I would be curious how many people end up with patinas versus how many prefer to keep them shiny and polished. I'm sure a lot of hard core collectors like to worship the original untouched surfaces too.
I agree.
 
I think it would be good to have more sheath options like have the option to get a leather, kydex, cordura. I agree with kookery. It is good to think long term. Hard to know all the conditions and limitations that HI is under though operating out of Nepal.
 
I think it would be good to have more sheath options like have the option to get a leather, kydex, cordura. I agree with kookery. It is good to think long term. Hard to know all the conditions and limitations that HI is under though operating out of Nepal.
I think your post is a good place for me to jump in here.

We don't offer modern materials because they are expensive to purchase and ship to Nepal. More likely to be confiscated before we even see them over there. They also don't quite fit in with what we're trying to do : keep traditional materials and manufacture and customs intact in a modern age. We don't offer much sheath options because we have limited resources, our sarkis make a better traditional scabbard than they do sheaths and they are hardly able to keep up with covering khukuri orders as they are. We are hesitant to make aftermarket sheaths because each must be fitted to each item if you are doing it properly. If it werent for SteveTalls donation of the KMEF sheaths and their luckily fitting some of our models, we likely wouldnt offer those either.

We try to keep our costs low, as well as cost to the customer. If we were to offer these things, prices would undoubtedly have to be raised substantially.

It is not a problem if a customer wishes to customize our product to his liking. Be it new handle or sheath. As long as the integrity of the blade is not compromised, it will be warranted except for handle.


As far as resale value?
Many people prefer to buy from the source here on BFC. The only items that resell very well are those from notable kamis whom are no longer producing or less produced collectable quality items. Many people buy for their collections and just for general usage. Hence the reason you dont see alot for sale most of the time.
On Ebay.... it has long been infested with a myriad of wares from our competitor. We choose not to pursue that market as it's always been quite low due to their pricing and wares and our priority is to focus our business on the website and take care of our friends here at BFC.

H.I is not a mulimillion dollar corporate entity. There is only so much we can do. Our focus has not been to be overly profitable at the expense of our customers or quality. Our focus is to provide opportunity for those Kamis whom can produce fine wares for us to sell. To provide them and their families with living conditions and medical care they would not have without our efforts.

I'm sorry but the Dharma work, producing fine product and keeping tradition alive is our foremost priorities.
 
"I'm sorry but the Dharma work, producing fine product and keeping tradition alive is our foremost priorities"--Karda
:):thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
kookery:

Karda, Steely and others have given pretty complete answers to your points about HI strategy, which involves constraints and goals that are quite different from most businesses. You have a right to disagree but you've been making the same arguments in several threads. At some point you might want to consider letting it go and just enjoy the knives, which after all are the product of the HI philosophy and business decisions.

I'd like to respond to one point in your original post. You say:

"I love my WWII, even with its goofy traditional palm-poker handle. I figured out that a looser grip let's the kukri do the work, and also allows the palm-poker to slip past my palm without leaving its "mark". Choking up on the handle is a lot more comfortable too. That, and leather work gloves seem to help a lot. Eventually I'm probably going to get a big belt sander and grind the palm poker off."

Other forumites have commented at various times about the handle ring digging into the palms of their hands. You've already learned that a looser grip helps. It's been noted in past threads that Nepalese tend to cut wood with many small chops rather than giant swings that many westerners use, in emulation of Conan the Barbarian. That's consistent with the loose grip.

Beyond that, you don't necessarily have to remove the whole ring. I've found that filing off the sharp edge of the ring is enough to eliminate all or most discomfort. In fact you only need to blunt the edge of the ring on the palm side. If you work carefully the change won't even be visible except on the closest inspection.

If you prefer to remove the entire ring, hey, it's your knife, do whatever you want with it. Rehandle it entirely if you like. Or better yet, buy an M-43 that has no handle ring and is just as versatile as a WWII model.

I hope that's helpful. Now for something you might not like:

When you refer to "its goofy traditional palm-poker handle," I find that gratuitously disrespectful of the tradition that HI and the kamis are dedicated to preserving. Frankly, that "goofy" comment smacks of cultural chauvinism, like your conviction that modern western handles are necessarily superior, and the subtext that tradition should always give way to convenience. Furthermore, when you speak of getting "a big belt sander" to grind the palm poker off, I wonder if you have any experience at all with woodworking. I wouldn't even take a small belt sander to the handle of a khukuri, let along a big belt sander. I would tape the handle around the ring and file off the ring, starting with a medium file and finishing with a fine file. I would take my time, as befits modifications to a work of fine craftsmanship. A big belt sander would probably destroy the handle altogether. You might as well use a chain saw or an axe. But don't take my word for it. The worst that can happen is you ruin the handle and then you can replace it with micarta as you prefer anyway.

I'm not deliberately trying to be sarcastic; it just came out that way. I think your "goofy" comment pushed a couple of my buttons. :)

-- Dave
 
Hey everybody, I added more photos of my blade to my original post. They show the mature, aged and natural patina quite a lot better. The original forced patina kind of looked like I peed on the blade, now that I think about it. Hmm, I'm getting wild ideas for experimentation now...but nevermind that :)

The aged patina no longer has any yellowish areas. It's all blue, red, gray, etc that shifts in color when the direction of the light changes. I'm sure that's caused by layering in the patina, which is what I was trying to create when I began my forced patination process. After the yellowish stuff and other loose patina came off in my avocados, the blade stopped giving off a scent, and now I have this gorgeous hard patina that just seems to keep improving when I use the knife to cut up my fruit.

I suspect the oily nature of the avocados might have had some specific effect on the shimmering of my patina, kind of like an oil slick floating on top of water. Next time I get an HI blade, I will have to try patinating it just with avocado slime, and see what that does.
 
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