Fire Making Your techniques for fires in wet weather

[Hurrul]

Like the corn oils? Don't they modify cars to run on that stuff?

Yeah - biodiesel and other products can be refined from various oils that fall under the umbrella term that you would see on the Frito ingredient list as "vegitable oils" - corn, soy, canola, rapeseed, and some others.

 

[robgmn]

Yeah - biodiesel and other products can be refined from various oils that fall under the umbrella term that you would see on the Frito ingredient list as "vegitable oils" - corn, soy, canola, rapeseed, and some others.

Food fires - in a pinch I have used a piece of dried spaghetti as a long "matchstick" to light a candlewick too deep to hit with a light or match-between-fingertips. Burns quiet well.
In a situation where it's desperation, dehydrated pastas in those camping MREs ight be useful as a tinder/kindling if you can get at least SOME flame to get them started.

 

[Pilsner]

I diagonally read through the first page of the thread... and I would like to add my (limited) point of view. No matter whether open fires are allowed or not in the area, a stove is always going to be more efficient for cooking than a fire. Cooking something in a pot, that is, not roasting a whole pig over a bed of coals.

There are stoves that weight 25g (such as this one, which I own, BRS-3000T) that paired with a 100g gas cartridge + the pot that you would be carrying anyway gives you the choice of brewing in the middle of the worst weather Apocalipsis... Even if you don't use it as the main cooking means... you could always use it to boost start your wood bonfire. Not the first choice for melting buckets of snow to get water but for noodles, soups, freeze-dried food is ok.

Even if you plan your outing arround wood fires... 125g is what an Spyderco Endura goes for (more or less). I bet some guys carry more weight in firemaking gadgets such as dry tinder, fatwood, fire straws, solid fuel tablets, etc. I think it pays off...

For me, wood fires are something else to worry about and are, as anyone would expect, a fire hazzard. I don't want my down filled sleeping bag (ultralight synthetic fabric) anywhere near a fire where a stray spark may burn a hole on it. Same goes for fleeze jackets, Scholler fabric pants, Gore-Tex third layers, gloves/mittens, backpacks, etc. In my opinion, to be safe arround fires, you need to go old school and wear cotton, wool or leather. Same for the sleeping setup. Old school gear is much heavier and less efficient (sucks up water, insulates less, more difficult to dry, etc). So for me, I preffer to go synthetic, light and do not rely on fire to keep me warm.

Maybe my needs are completly different than anyone elses here but... fire for me is something to avoid is possible. If something goes really REALLY wrong and I find myself in an emergency situation, you bet your precious that I would be setting the whole forest in fire if required. I get it is a great moral boost but I preffer to do without.

Mikel

Hey Mikel,

Great post. I too have one of those tiny stoves (or at least near identical). They are really great, and for us in the UK, it would be a rarity to start a fire when wild camping, for various reasons. Much more frequently it is using a stove. What I would say about using fire, as well as the morale boost, which you mention, is that a contained fire is very easy to manage. I have a ‘hobo stove’ which is the base unit for our Kelly Kettle. This weighs very little, but it is bulky compared with a tiny butane stove. You can cook quite happily on it using only small kindling, literally sticks if necessary. It’s fun, too, which matters more if you have kids along, which I often do! Anyway, I agree with much of what you say re fires in general. In winter conditions, however, I always welcome one!!

 

[reppans]

I’ll +1 on the stove idea, I bag-EDC my UL backpacking stove. I use 4oz of Everclear/190 grain to cover a lot of bases, whether in the city or woods: hot food/drinks, boil/sterilize water, Vodka sweet tea drinks (w/powdered iced tea mix), CV19 hand sanitizer, 10hr Palmer Furnace heater, first-aid prep, wet-wipes, mouthwash/deodorant, fire accelerant, etc.

Been stuck outside unprepared during wee hours of winter from a hotel fire alarm and commuter train breakdown. Not life threatening in civilization, but damn you can get awfully uncomfortable before banging on doors and waking folks to ‘save’ you. Today, my small man-bag could provide a hot tea, full-body heater (~30F boost), comfy chair, movies/entertainment.

 

[Ron Raducanu]

In my older teens and young twenties I spent 5 summers leading kids on 5 day canoe trips in upper LaVerendrye Park in Quebec.

When we stopped at campsites in the rain, the first thing I would ask the kids to do is find wood under other wood. First very small twigs, all the way up to logs. At the same time, I'd ask them to dig for some pine needles that were either under a bunch of other pine needles, or mixed up in dirt. The last thing I would do was dig out the fire pits that were already there until I hit some dry loose dirt. All I eve had to start fires was my Zippo lighter. I'd put some paper down (which I always carried to write a journal of each trip), the pine needles over that, then the twigs in a little teepee or log cabin depending on how much was gathered and useable. Never failed.
Fast forward to years later, I used this technique at one of my son's camping trips with the Boy Scouts and it still worked like a charm.

 

[Mikel_24]

....I'd ask them to dig for some pine needles that were either under a bunch of other pine needles, or mixed up in dirt. ...

I realised long ago that the driest pine needles you can find (unless it is raining at that very same moment) are the ones that on they way down have caught on the lower branches or other trees or bushes. They are basically hanging there exposed to the breeze... and they dry quickly! Unless it is bone dry out there, anything on the ground is going to suck up moisture. Even worse if they are buried under something else. Not being exposed to the elements is a two fold situation. If you start from a totally dry situation and get some rain, the coverage may protect the items from getting wet (short term) but if everthing is wet already, anything not exposed to breeze/wind is going to be wet forever...

Mikel

 

[Pomsbz]

I diagonally read through the first page of the thread... and I would like to add my (limited) point of view. No matter whether open fires are allowed or not in the area, a stove is always going to be more efficient for cooking than a fire. Cooking something in a pot, that is, not roasting a whole pig over a bed of coals.

There are stoves that weight 25g (such as this one, which I own, BRS-3000T) that paired with a 100g gas cartridge + the pot that you would be carrying anyway gives you the choice of brewing in the middle of the worst weather Apocalipsis... Even if you don't use it as the main cooking means... you could always use it to boost start your wood bonfire. Not the first choice for melting buckets of snow to get water but for noodles, soups, freeze-dried food is ok.

Even if you plan your outing arround wood fires... 125g is what an Spyderco Endura goes for (more or less). I bet some guys carry more weight in firemaking gadgets such as dry tinder, fatwood, fire straws, solid fuel tablets, etc. I think it pays off...

For me, wood fires are something else to worry about and are, as anyone would expect, a fire hazzard. I don't want my down filled sleeping bag (ultralight synthetic fabric) anywhere near a fire where a stray spark may burn a hole on it. Same goes for fleeze jackets, Scholler fabric pants, Gore-Tex third layers, gloves/mittens, backpacks, etc. In my opinion, to be safe arround fires, you need to go old school and wear cotton, wool or leather. Same for the sleeping setup. Old school gear is much heavier and less efficient (sucks up water, insulates less, more difficult to dry, etc). So for me, I preffer to go synthetic, light and do not rely on fire to keep me warm.

Maybe my needs are completly different than anyone elses here but... fire for me is something to avoid is possible. If something goes really REALLY wrong and I find myself in an emergency situation, you bet your precious that I would be setting the whole forest in fire if required. I get it is a great moral boost but I preffer to do without.

Mikel

I use exactly this, one of those exact stoves and a 100g gas canister (the ones I buy weigh 200g incidentally, the canister itself weighs 100g). All fits nicely in a small pot and I can easily cook up hot dogs and beans with it or a can of soup, etc. Going old school is fun and I make sure I can do it but I use a flashlight with rubber 'condom' lamp attachment rather than a UCO candle lantern and prefer to cook on gas rather than wood.

 

[upnorth]

Fatwood and petroleum jelly filled cottonballs for starters. Dead wood that is still on the trees, especially the small branches at the bottom of spruce, pine, or fir, burn well. And when all else fails, there is the option of bringing a road flare. I was on a backpacking trip in the Adirondacks and had conditions similar to yours - steady heavy rain all day, low temperatures. One of the guys pulled out a flare and lit it up. It did a wonderful job of getting a big fire started.

Yup, this is where I have primarily evolved to. I forgot about flairs, thanks. The natives that I saw in the far north would just take a jerry can of spare fuel off their snowmobile for accelerant. The colder and wetter it is, and the older I get, the less I care about being traditional. In extreme temperatures I will seriously stack the odds in my favour because I've been concerned more than once about how quickly my body can start to chill. Lighters under arm pits to get them to work better, packing three times more than normal fat wood "back up" chunk sticks, smashing/shattering tinder or fat wood into starting splinters with a hatchet head because my fingers where getting cold numb, whatever it takes, whatever is quicker. I've probably made every dumb mistake you can. So now I bring or use more resources, and I do it quicker. I put much more thought into what I bring with me now from experiences of screwing up. I don't bring one or two lighters with me. I bring those and a never opened 5 pack of Bicks in my bag. I bring back ups for my back ups because I've had back ups screw up. I've learned that little day hike sky larks can turn into potentially dangerous situations in weather changes or when I wait until I'm colder, tired, hungry before focusing on fire. Arrogance and lack of actual experience fear slapped me enough times that I woke up. I have no magical trick for wet conditions other than finding a sheltered spot to build it in and splitting my materials to expose the dry insides. It can be difficult and I have failed at times.

 

[milesofalaska]

I've spent 40 years in Interior Alaska, 25 out remote running sled dogs living off the land. When it comes to fire I think first, is keep methods simple. One of my reliable ways is to carry strips of cut inner tube in my pocket to light. half inch wide 6 inches long. Indestructible, works when wet, not spendy, burns long time hot. Other option was a vial of waste oil sometimes a tad of gas to get it to take off fast.

I'd travel sometimes with sled dogs down to 60 below zero. I had a tin can wood stove heater with 2 inch stovepipe . I'd keep kindling in the stove usually birch bark, with burnable wood on top. I'd use my rubber strip or oil to get it going, close the lid, open my coat, hunker down with it between my knees, exhaust pipe under my coat up over my shoulder. I'd get instant heat to my body. When warm and fire out I reload for next use, have ready and often repeat every two hours and, be out on the trapline for a ten hour day, usually cover 50 miles of trapline. Other ideas, but this was my best really cold weather method that kept me alive.

 

[Hurrul]

I've spent 40 years in Interior Alaska, 25 out remote running sled dogs living off the land. When it comes to fire I think first, is keep methods simple. One of my reliable ways is to carry strips of cut inner tube in my pocket to light. half inch wide 6 inches long. Indestructible, works when wet, not spendy, burns long time hot. Other option was a vial of waste oil sometimes a tad of gas to get it to take off fast.

I'd travel sometimes with sled dogs down to 60 below zero. I had a tin can wood stove heater with 2 inch stovepipe . I'd keep kindling in the stove usually birch bark, with burnable wood on top. I'd use my rubber strip or oil to get it going, close the lid, open my coat, hunker down with it between my knees, exhaust pipe under my coat up over my shoulder. I'd get instant heat to my body. When warm and fire out I reload for next use, have ready and often repeat every two hours and, be out on the trapline for a ten hour day, usually cover 50 miles of trapline. Other ideas, but this was my best really cold weather method that kept me alive.

I've spent some memorable and miserable nights in the backcountry, but not up at the hard core level your describing.

I hope you still have all your fingers, toes, and the tip of your nose!

Thanks for sharing.

 

[milesofalaska]

I smile. I call Alaska wilderness the center of everything, not the middle of nowhere. And 'hard core' is being able to smile in civilization. When you would like to talk to your bank, tec support, 911, VA, unemployment, your mother. "Press 1 for English, your business is important to us, please hold." Said by someone in another country you cant understand.

Got a fire story for ya I forgot about ... on the subject of civilization...talk about hard core...

I once knew this elder Athabascan Indian who believed in and lived in the old way. Never left Alaska, biggest place he saw in his life is Fairbanks, population 50,000. So he is flying to LA. Yikes! He gets back I want to hear all about a savage in the land of the civlized! I expect all kinds of tales! He says only. “It was all right.” What a let down! As an after thought he says. “I had a hard time getting a fire going.” I’m puzzled. So he is in a big parking lot in LA and decides it is time to make tea. He sits on the cement by a telephone pole and gets out his tea pot and fixings. He shaves a bit of the phone pole off for his kindling and lights it. “Police came and hauled me away. What’s wrong with you crazy White people.” Imagine, interrupting a man’s tea time like that!

 

[GAGL]

this thing will change your fire making game for ever

edit: you can just use an old antenna or make one from wood or other materials

 

[rhino]

I wouldn't want to do it under stress or an emergency, but I have successfully made one stick fires with sticks that were pretty damp having been gathered after a good rain. It took some time to split and make feather sticks and slivers from the inner parts (dryest) and igniting the feathers with a ferro rod took a lot of patience (multiple tries probably dried them).

Having done that, if I had to make a fire under stress in damp conditions, I would resort petroleum jelly, cotton, and a Bic Lighter, all of which are part of my on-body EDC. I'd make as many feather sticks and small slivers as I could because the burning petro/cotton will have a better chance of drying them and once they get going, they'll help dry progressively larger kindling and fuel.

 

[abo4ster]

(huge facepalm) I forgot an essential piece of my firemaking kit: a titanium extendable straw! A small tube for strategically blowing air into coals is a HUGE gamechanger for firemaking. Just Google "titanium extendable fire straw" and you'll get hits on a ton of places that sell them. Man, sorry about that. If I'm car camping, I just carry a length of small diameter PVC pipe.

Not so much for wet weather, but a cool technique nonetheless in lieu of the straw, Kneel Diamond...

For wet weather:
- Nothing better than practice
- Gather tinder-bundle material ahead of time (every time I walk in the woods I tend to stuff my pockets with fibrous bark or similar)
- If already wet, learn what tinders dry well with body heat
- Practice successful tinder bundle building in dry weather when you can light with a Fresnel lens
- Knife skills for reducing wood to dry shavings; way more dry fuel than wet in the forest, even in a downpour
- Assume when you really NEED a fire, you will only have what's on your person; carry and practice with what works for you at your skill level for wet-weather fire
- Lighters and matches are great as it's hard to beat a radiant flame. Personally, I carry a mini BIC in a (flammable) bicycle inner-tube and they are ridiculously reliable. But I also carry a ferrocerium rod as sometimes it's not just wet-weather and there is high-wind and that metal match sometimes works better. Not to mention inherently more reliable to damage, failure, getting soaked, flash freeze, etc.
- While I am not a huge fan of the tipi firelay in general, it could be your friend depending on resources (found and brought) and the current weather -- add it to your repertoire
- Know your trees; for example in the eastern US, eastern white pine has fine branching with thin bark that retains lower branches off the ground making for excellent kindling. Hemlock has similar structure but bark is thick and retains moisture, not so desirable
- Time yourself on making feather sticks that work - speed matters
- Test yourself - numb your hands in a cold stream or ice bucket and then light a fire

You are starting to master fire when you can light a fire in the rain with a split paper match and no knife

 

[bladecollectorr]

Interesting thread! I read through it all and have a couple points to add or stress. Great tips have already been posted.

I've done lots of canoeing and backpacking trips and like to think I'm a good woodsman. While I value tradition, I love using tech and being lazy as well. My methods would end in a brute-force solution not mentioned already.

Use Bic lighters. Find dry stuff to burn. Birch bark, pine needles, dead branches still on trees (maybe still standing fully dead trees, lichen, fat-wood, trees bleeding pine-pitch etc. Balsam trees bleed pitch and the growing blisters on the trunk are filled with flammable goodness.

When I'm in the bush, fire is more for warmth than for cooking. In the rain this is doubly true. Setting tarp over fire area is good first move. Building the fire on some dry or dry-ish logs (split a few if you can to get bone-dry inner surface) is much better than trying to start a fire in a puddle.

I don't want a time-consuming ordeal just to eat lunch or drink tea etc. so I pack the MSR Dragonfly. I've been using one now for almost 30 years. They are the noisiest stove you will ever find but they are small, very hot, bomb-proof, easily re-buildable, simmer very well with adjustable flame and will burn any liquid you can set a match to. Most commonly they are used with naphtha "white gas" because they burn hottest using it.

https://www.msrgear.com/ca/stoves/liquid-fuel-stoves/dragonfly-stove/11774.html

Since I always have my stove and it's fuel, if all else were to fail, I would just poor a bit of naphtha gas on my well-built tee-pee or log-cabin, built on dry platform under edge of tarp. The ensuing firestorm tends to get things done.

Yeah, it's kind of "cheating" but it's also being well-prepared. I've rarely had to use the naphtha to start a fire but I'm glad I always have a bottle of it just the same.

Go big or go home! Firestorm! lol

I also carry a small portable fan. It is a fantastic piece of kit and gets used on fires far more than the naphtha. Another way to encourage the firestorm.

 

[Mikel_24]

....Since I always have my stove and it's fuel, if all else were to fail, I would just poor a bit of naphtha gas on my well-built tee-pee or log-cabin, built on dry platform under edge of tarp. The ensuing firestorm tends to get things done....

Instead of pouring the fuel... you can always dip a small stick into the bottle and get pretty much the same results... Or a piece of toilet paper, a napkin or something.. Even if you let some crap inside the bottle, the built in filter of the sucking straw of the pump will prevent it from clogging the fuel line.

I have the Primus close cousing of your Dragonfly... the Omnifuel (dual valve as well) and work great. However I recommend anyone using liquid fuel stoves to stick to white gas or Coleman Fuel... the gas pump fuel has too many aditives that end up clogging the whole thing, rendering it unusable unless you take it all appart and cleaning the residue. Ask me how I know!!

Mikel

 

[bladecollectorr]

Instead of pouring the fuel... you can always dip a small stick into the bottle and get pretty much the same results... Or a piece of toilet paper, a napkin or something.. Even if you let some crap inside the bottle, the built in filter of the sucking straw of the pump will prevent it from clogging the fuel line.

I have the Primus close cousing of your Dragonfly... the Omnifuel (dual valve as well) and work great. However I recommend anyone using liquid fuel stoves to stick to white gas or Coleman Fuel... the gas pump fuel has too many aditives that end up clogging the whole thing, rendering it unusable unless you take it all appart and cleaning the residue. Ask me how I know!!

Mikel

Good points! White gas (naphtha) is indeed the cleanest burning, you are absolutely right. I've only ever used white-gas and my stove stays pretty clean. I see the multi-fuel capabilities as a great emergency situation option. You didn't bring enough fuel and are about to starve? Good think you brought a flask of vodka, pour that in there etc.

Wetting something rather than pouring fuel would work too. To clarify: you should NEVER pour an accelerant on a lit fire or even smouldering coals. The "last resort", "I'm going to freeze to death!" pouring on of naptha would be done on the unlit fire. I would then stand safely back and toss in a match or a burning piece of "whatever".

 

[Bill Siegle]

I haven’t read the whole thread yet but I have used a shelter over my fire builds in wet weather to get things started. I jam a couple sticks in the ground at 30-45degrees and build overhead shelter about 18 inches high with boughs and sticks above my fire materials. It’s useful for getting the initial fire started from shavings using a fire steel without an accelerant. Once going you simply build a hotter fire to withstand the rain or build a taller structure over the fire.

 

[scdub]

Hurrul Hurrul and [COLOR=#c2c2f0] K [/COLOR] kvaughn I've found what I've found, let's move on. Do either of you have experience in making a fire in wet weather?

I was genuinely interested in understanding more about this fire starting tinder you mentioned.

It's a fine line to walk, if posting questions about fire starter in a thread about starting fires is a digression from the theme of the thread.

 

[gadgetgeek]

At my other job I used to have a good time getting fires lit when other people thought it was "too wet". Gotta say, that pocket bellows is a real winner, though when I was working, because I had a dedicated pack for my gear, I used a cut off aluminum arrow shaft.
If you are making your own PJCB, you can add a bit of parafin to get them to burn even hotter, and handle hot temps better. I found that it does take some dialing in to make sure that they will still light with just a spark, but I think the last big batch was 75% parafin, and they light really well.

I'm a big fan of the "birds nest" firelay, as you can easily get both a fire platform going, as well as get some marginal kindling to go. Around here we have a lot of eucalypt species that drop piles of spaghetti thick twigs. Even soaking wet, they have enough oil in them to start getting going, if you have enough of them, I'm talking a nest for some pretty big birds! My words were always "More and smaller!"

I don't have a survival in rain fire story, but I did an ill-planned winter campout in the Alberta rockeys and had a fire-bundle set up in a sealed four liter ice-cream bucket. A good thing too, as when the cold woke me up, it was all I could do to get that bundle to light. I hate to think what might have happened if I hadn't been ready, there were seven other guys, and I don't think I would have thought to wake anyone else up, I was pretty out of it. The smoke woke one of the other guys who then realized just how cold he was, he came and added a stick to the fire which got it really going, and we spent the next few hours until dawn as one by one everyone else woke up. Lots of folks don't wake up if they go hypothermic when sleeping.