ZDP-189 - Best blade steel so far

I too have the Caly Jr Burgundy in ZDP and I think it is really sharp stuff. However, it chips easily. My tip broke off within the first week during normal cutting chores.

My 30-40cm long Maglite which was standing up fell over on it on my desk and now the blade is bent crooked. I don't know if that says anything about ZDP or if the same thing would happen to any other steel, but I thought it was kind of lame for such a small amount of force.
 
I loved this steel at first, but my Caly 3 with CF handles has little chips in the edge and I baby this thing and have never cut anything tougher than cardboard. Factory edge and sharpened on Sharpmaker at 40 degrees with brown ceramic stones. Very disappointed.
 
stoffi said:
I too have the Caly Jr Burgundy in ZDP and I think it is really sharp stuff. However, it chips easily. My tip broke off within the first week during normal cutting chores.

My 30-40cm long Maglite which was standing up fell over on it on my desk and now the blade is bent crooked. I don't know if that says anything about ZDP or if the same thing would happen to any other steel, but I thought it was kind of lame for such a small amount of force.
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the caly jr is laminated ZDP (420J2 with ZDP core) maybe that has something to do with what happened , or it could have just been a freak occurrence .

i have a caly jr in VG-10 and my tip broke off too , maybe it's just because the tip is so thin and acute . i re-profiled the blade and it looks like factory , only smaller a little small .
 
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Mark J said:
I love ZDP-189, but as mentioned above, it's a pain to sharpen. Forget about using ceramic sharpeners - I've found diamond sharpeners are the only way to go with this steel.

- Mark
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i use king waterstones to sharpen my ZDP endura 4 , gets the job done for me .
 
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Gotta say I love it myself, no burr formation during sharpening, and no chipping so far. I have the CF Calypso III, laminated 420J2/ZDP189. I don't go chopping on wood or twisting it through plastic blister packs, I have hit a few staples to no effect. My favorite steel for light duty folders.
 
Well, I use my heavy duty folder Yuna Hard II with ZDP (I hope Spyderco will made one heavy duty folder with this steel too) on anything - drywall, aluminum, and here I think most abusive use:

http://www.youtube.com/user/nozh2002#p/a/u/2/O0PHxVP6WSo

I do not know where all this cry about ZDP-189 brittleness come from - to me it is really hard to believe.

Thanks, Vassili.

Really hope for ZDP189 Military. or better collaboration with Yuna.
P.S. As well I also found it easy to sharpen to my usual taste. This is same ZDP189 resharpened aftre heavy use from previous video (resharpened for less the 10 minutes):

http://www.youtube.com/user/nozh2002#p/a/u/1/ufpEGIfJRJk
 
nozh2002 said:
Really hope for ZDP189 Military.
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Sorry, but it's not going to happen. The Military is a USA made knife, and ZDP-189 is a Japanese steel.
It would mean that the Military would have to be made in Japan. I don't see that happening.
 
Now that I know how to work with it I think ZDP is quite awesome.

Sorry, but it's not going to happen. The Military is a USA made knife, and ZDP-189 is a Japanese steel.
It would mean that the Military would have to be made in Japan. I don't see that happening.
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At one point in time the Military was made with ATS34, a Japanese steel. IIRC the blades were made in Golden so the steel may have been shipped over from Japan and produced as blades at the Golden factory. So the fact that ZDP is a Japanese steel isn't the limiting factor. Spyderco sends S30V to Taiwan for certain models as well.
 
To clarify that, ZDP is a very tightly guarded product by its manufacturer, they want it heat treated there, to their exact specifications. As far as I know no one can get raw ZDP-189 shipped to the US in any signifigant quantity. ATS34 by comparison you can get at any ole supplier.
 
Well, learn something new. :D

Maybe they could ship the rest of the parts to the Japanese factory and have them assembled there? And while I'm dreaming they could do a run of lefty ZDP Millies as well. :p
 
yoda4561 said:
To clarify that, ZDP is a very tightly guarded product by its manufacturer, they want it heat treated there, to their exact specifications. As far as I know no one can get raw ZDP-189 shipped to the US in any signifigant quantity. ATS34 by comparison you can get at any ole supplier.
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^ this is correct , the exact chemical make up of ZDP is unknown (only carbon and chrome % are listed) and it's heat treatment is a secret , so even if you have sheets of raw ZDP it's usless without a proper heat treatment recipe .

IMO , S90V millies shouldn't be limited to sprint runs .
 
For all of the steels available to us the general public you must face the fact that every steel we've all used up till now has it's strengths and it's weaknesses. I say that because I'm sure that the military industrial complex no doubt has materials that are way ahead of anything we the general public are aware of.

ZDP-189 is in my opinion truly is one of the top 5 cutlery steels I've ever used. The one "achilles' heel" ( weakpoint) that I personally discovered with ZDP-189 is it's vulnerability to certain types of corrosion due to food acid exposure in particular. It's ability to withstand certain types of food acids should not be overlooked or taken for granted. Because one day in the summer of 2008 I used one of my ZDP blades to cut up some tomatoes out of my garden. I will admit that I forgot to wash the blade off with fresh water after I used it. But the next day I noticed some very visible pits and the blade edge itself under a jeweler's loupe looked as though something out of a Stephen King novel had bitten chunks out of it.

It was a type of corrosion I had never seen in any blade steel up to that point. I sent the knife back to Spyderco for them to look at. Charlyn at W & R even marveled at it when she got it. She immediately resharpened it and sent it back. Since they I've realized that ZDP-189 is extremely vulnerable to certain food acids and I would also summize that it's probably sensative to other plant acids in the vegetable/fruit kingdom.

I had never had that happen to any of my AUS-8, VG-10, ATS-55, MBS-26 or any of the other Spyderco blades I've used to process food with. But do be aware of it's "Achilles' Heel". ZDP-189 either because of it's extraordinarily high carbon content or because of it's extremely unique metallurgical properties is not very acid or corrosion resistant under certain environments. Be sure to rinse it with fresh water after using it on any food items.

Other than that it's in my personal top 3 blade steels.
 
Outdoors Fanatic said:
I still think that Spyderco's VG-10 is the best overall steel for folders and small fixed blade knives. It is as easy to sharpen as plain carbon steel, yet is very rust resistant and with superior edge retention. A pleasure to use and to maintain...
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+1 :thumbup: I agree with Outdoors Fanatic.
I had rust pits on my ZDP blade, only on the side that faced me when I carried it. Small pits in diameter, but they went deep. I tried flitz, fine sanding, all kinds of remedies, but they were still there. I will stick with VG-10. Maybe my perspiration is just extra corrosive! :D
 
JD Spydo said:
I had never had that happen to any of my AUS-8, VG-10, ATS-55, MBS-26 or any of the other Spyderco blades I've used to process food with.
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I experienced the same thing recently with a laminated VG-10 knife from a well-known manufacturer. I do not know exactly what was cut (the room mate had done it) but I was quite surprised when I next took the knife from the block, and discovered that my santoku had become a santoku-shaped bread knife with a lovely red edge. I would not hold edge pitting against ZDP-189.
 
kreole said:
ZDP189 is too chippy IMHO.
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That has been my experience as well. Granted, I've only owned two knives made from ZDP-189 and both were from the same manufacturer, but both were chippy enough that I'm very careful with how I use the remaining one.

This is something that I'm struggling to figure out. People with opinions that I respect highly are telling me that this stuff doesn't chip, but it's the only steel in my collection that does chip, and on a regular basis at that. I'm tempted to blame myself for this but I used them the same way that I used everything else, so I don't think it's that. Perhaps I need a thicker knife.

I'll probably give it another shot eventually but for right now, I'm sticking with S30V and (when available) S90V, particularly the former.
 
Some people must sweat battery acid. A co-worker of mine carries an old SS Delica with aus-6 blade steel in his pocket (he doesn't use the pocket clip) and he's always wiping little rust spots off the blade.
 
Interesting thread. Thanx. We appreciate the input.

ZDP-189 is very special stuff. It has a lot of very odd alloys and it is the result of many years of research. There is little real history so you are not only the market, you are the experiment.

As Yoda mentioned, it is the one steel that Hitachi will not sell to us. We probably use more ZDP than any other manufacturer. I imagine one day in the future, we might get Hitachi to teach our heat treater how to get the most from it, but for now, we are content to work with our Seki makers in ZDP production.

I find myself using it quite a bit, I've decided that I like it with a full flat grind. That's why the ZDP Endura has already converted and the Delica will follow. The new Michael Walker sprint uses ZDP in a high hollow, which cuts like an angry witch.

I like my folders hard, and I resharpen at 30 degrees inclusive. This seems to work best for me. Too thin and it gets "chippy". On the larger blades like fixed blades, I think a litle softer (62-63) is better., We found that 65-66 was too hard for the mass.

Anyone that claims to be "the expert" on ZDP is full of themselves. It is still a fledgling exotic steel that we are all learning about, including Hitachi.

sal
 
Can we all agree that ZDP-189 is going to be more brittle than just about anything with a lower Rockwell value. It's just physics.

All steel is going to be a compromise of several qualities, such as edge holding, toughness, abrasion resistance and tensile strength.

Just like tanks, which are always a balance of crew protection, mobility and firepower.

There's plenty of room for both CPMS90V for the big blades and ZDP-189 for your basic pocket scalpels.
 
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I won't agree that ZDP 189 is more brittle than any steel with a lower RC. 440C at 61-62 RC hardness (or even VG-10 or S30V at 62 RC) would be lower RC and probably be way chippier than my 64.5 RC Stretch. I go with thin backbevels (generally 7-10 per side) then microbevel at 15-20 degrees per side and I haven't had any undue chipping (hit a packing staple with most any steel and you can expect a little chip when using a decent edge geometry that isn't axe thick). Sure, VG-10 at 59 RC may roll where 64.5 RC ZDP may chip, but either way you have to do a full resharpening to remove the chip or the weakened steel from edge rolling. I personally love CPM M4 because at 62.5 RC it hasn't chipped with a 10 degree per side edge even when cutting directly on the bones of a 400 lb. Hog to remove his lower legs and head. ZDP, S30V, and VG-10 all would have chipped there, but then again they have much more corrosion resistance. Either way yes, ZDP can chip more than most other common high end steels like S30V and VG-10, but VG-10 or S30V would probably roll or get a flat spot instead of get a small chip like ZDP on a tough cut. Also, if you are complaining of ZDP chipping without doing a full resharpening then you may not be getting a true look at what ZDP 189 is capable off. It isn't uncommon for factory edges in any steel to be chipping from possible overheating of the edge or a left over burr from the factory sharpening. If your ZDP knife continues to chip after a full resharpening to a reasonable geometry then send it in to the factory to see if they can find anything wrong with it. I have found for normal EDC cutting like packing straps, cardboard, rope, plastic blister packs, ect. ZDP performs great with no chipping. If you cut metals or other nasty stuff it probably isn't the best steel for you.

Mike
 
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