ZDP 189 Endura Initial Impressions

Korean Hog

Korean Hog

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Mar 12, 2017
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General commentary/ Pros: Y'all can look up all specs, but this knife is generously proportioned :D both blade and handle, with a close to 5" handle and 3 3/4" blade. Stellar ergos, very roomy, and feels the best out of any knife I've held in a similar size range. Very sharp out of the box, clip is functional, and all the other things we've come to expect out of the Endura/ Delica line. Lightweight, slicy, grippy handle etc.

First Endura, but the "melt in your hand" ergos and scary sharpness that stood out to me on the Delica stand out to me on the Endura.

arguable cons: these may be over-critiques for $100 price point
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cons?: slight bit of blade play out of the box, but this was easily corrected with pivot adjustment. (*slightly tighter) The blade is way off center towards the presentation side (for a right handed user) IMO it isn't so off center that any functionality of the knife will be effected. Action is still very smooth and there is no play after pivot adjustment. I had hoped that the blade may center itself once the pivot was tightened to remove play, but this was not the case.

Closing: Again, the blade is still as functional as ever! Endura/ Delica may be the most functional and practical combo that I know of. I never used to check blade centering until I owned a Chris Reeve and saw others checking for blade-centering :rolleyes: CRK=$350+ worth of production dead flat, dead center, bells and whistles and so on, Endura= $75-$110 level of production and you're probably getting a better value cause they'll cut as well (possibly better) than most $400 knives.

Endura/ Delica is like all function and no gimmicks, true Spyderco blades and I love em!

*knife out of box had "drop free" action which I don't like, once I adjusted pivot to remove side-to-side blade play, the action became more desirable IMO because now the blade falls to the halfway point in a hydraulic manner so it doesn't drop on your fingers but makes one-handed operation easy with a back lock.
 
I've rcd only one Spyderco that wasn't centered. It didn't hit the scale and has stayed that way for years.

How do you like the steel? My W&H ZDP holds an edge forever and it's not thick, <30 degrees on the Sharpmaker.
 
Really like the steel, even more after I followed Joe’s recommendation to go very light and not to burr excessively on coarse stone.
 
brownshoe said:
I've rcd only one Spyderco that wasn't centered. It didn't hit the scale and has stayed that way for years.

How do you like the steel? My W&H ZDP holds an edge forever and it's not thick, <30 degrees on the Sharpmaker.
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Whenever I get a new knife I use the factory edge till the working edge is gone as a test, and then I do my hand sharpening on diamond stones (put "my edge" on it), use it till the working edge is gone, and then I feel as if I have a good idea about how the edge holds up.

Still using the factory edge and cutting everything in sight; rope, paper, cardboard, plastic, food, are all fair game. The main thing I've noticed about the ZDP so far is that it's holding that crispy edge nicely and seems to be like VG10 on steroids (to my hands, not necessarily comparing chemical comp.) VG10 was developed for the horticulture industry with the idea of disrupting plant "blood" vessels as little as possible, I noticed the ZDP making clean shiny cuts through food, I'm talking sashimi quality smooth where the turf of the cut is super smooth, sushi chefs desire this sharpness because disrupting vessels as little as possible in food preserves flavor and appearance. I notcied high hrc (63-65) ZDP 189 being used in high end Yanagi knives and that's what sparked my interest on this Endura.

So far, I am loving the slicing/ cutting characteristics of ZDP! Toughness and corrosion testing is coming soon in the form of my workweek as an HVAC tech on the Gulf Coast. Skinning wire, cutting tie wraps and tape from sheet metal, and non-knife people borrowing my shit :mad: :rolleyes: should be a good toughness test. Working on the coast, sometimes no more than 50 ft. from the salty gulf of mexico, probably drop it in the sand a time or two, probably get mud made with sand, clay, and saltwater on it, absolutely my own sweat etc. should be a good corrosion test.

I'll be doing the corrosion test with normal care which is a cleaning and wipe down before I leave the house, at lunch, and at the end of the day after work, the 6 hour or so windows between those times are fair game and I won't be stopping work to clean my knife. Maybe wipe it on my pants, but otherwise it'll come out, cut, and go right back in my sweaty pocket.

For toughness I'm just going to use like I use any other duct knife, skinning knife, utility knife. No batoning, prying, wire cutting, spine wack, weight hangs or anything like that. I consider these abuse. It's cool if the knife will do those things and hold up, but I don't consider it a fair test. I use my knives purely to cut things you would normally cut with a knife, but I'm not going to shy away from cutting things where my knife may accidentally wack something that'll chip it on the follow through.
 
Korean Hog said:
Whenever I get a new knife I use the factory edge till the working edge is gone as a test, and then I do my hand sharpening on diamond stones (put "my edge" on it), use it till the working edge is gone, and then I feel as if I have a good idea about how the edge holds up.

Still using the factory edge and cutting everything in sight; rope, paper, cardboard, plastic, food, are all fair game. The main thing I've noticed about the ZDP so far is that it's holding that crispy edge nicely and seems to be like VG10 on steroids (to my hands, not necessarily comparing chemical comp.) VG10 was developed for the horticulture industry with the idea of disrupting plant "blood" vessels as little as possible, I noticed the ZDP making clean shiny cuts through food, I'm talking sashimi quality smooth where the turf of the cut is super smooth, sushi chefs desire this sharpness because disrupting vessels as little as possible in food preserves flavor and appearance. I notcied high hrc (63-65) ZDP 189 being used in high end Yanagi knives and that's what sparked my interest on this Endura.

So far, I am loving the slicing/ cutting characteristics of ZDP! Toughness and corrosion testing is coming soon in the form of my workweek as an HVAC tech on the Gulf Coast. Skinning wire, cutting tie wraps and tape from sheet metal, and non-knife people borrowing my shit :mad: :rolleyes: should be a good toughness test. Working on the coast, sometimes no more than 50 ft. from the salty gulf of mexico, probably drop it in the sand a time or two, probably get mud made with sand, clay, and saltwater on it, absolutely my own sweat etc. should be a good corrosion test.

I'll be doing the corrosion test with normal care which is a cleaning and wipe down before I leave the house, at lunch, and at the end of the day after work, the 6 hour or so windows between those times are fair game and I won't be stopping work to clean my knife. Maybe wipe it on my pants, but otherwise it'll come out, cut, and go right back in my sweaty pocket.

For toughness I'm just going to use like I use any other duct knife, skinning knife, utility knife. No batoning, prying, wire cutting, spine wack, weight hangs or anything like that. I consider these abuse. It's cool if the knife will do those things and hold up, but I don't consider it a fair test. I use my knives purely to cut things you would normally cut with a knife, but I'm not going to shy away from cutting things where my knife may accidentally wack something that'll chip it on the follow through.
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Definitely interested to hear about the “toughness” of unlaminated zdp189, as I’m looking to get either the stretch or endura in this steel. I always liked the laminated ones(mainly for the novelty of the design) but since reading that its basically just a cost savings technique, and that zdp is tougher, apparently, than s110, I am researching a purchase.

I hadn’t heard about vg-10’s development being related to horticulture!
Definitely cutting a steak (beef, tuna, etc) just tastes better cut with a scary sharp knife. I always thought that plants just reacted badly to the chemistry of the iron in steel. It make sense that using chromium and molybdenum would lessen the damage.
 
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Yonose said:
Definitely interested to hear about the “toughness” of unlaminated zdp189, as I’m looking to get either the stretch or endura in this steel. I always liked the laminated ones(mainly for the novelty of the design) but since reading that its basically just a cost savings technique, and that zdp is tougher, apparently, than s110, I am researching a purchase.
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I have the Manix 2 in S110V and love the edge retention but the edge can be a bit chippy. That's another reason I bought the ZDP. S110V and ZDP 189 that I have from Spyderco are both unlaminated, low to mid 60's hrc and fully flat ground. So I'm watching close to see which one is chippier.

Not a true scientific test since the manix and endura have different blades, but they're the only examples of 110v and ZDP that I have. As long as the ZDP 189 doesn't rust like 1095 and chip like a ceramic coffe mug I'll probably favor it for the lightweight carry and sharpness superiority :D
 
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Korean Hog said:
I have the Manix 2 in S110V and love the edge retention but the edge can be a bit chippy. That's another reason I bought the ZDP. S110V and ZDP 189 that I have from Spyderco are both unlaminated, low to mid 60's hrc and fully flat ground. So I'm watching close to see which one is chippier.
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My impressions are unscientific, to say the least, but my military in s110 is less “chippy” than my military in s30v. Very likely a result of my tendency to use less caution and precision when sharpening s30v.
My caly 3.5 (zdp/420)isn’t chippy, but I haven’t sharpened it yet.
 
Yonose said:
My impressions are unscientific, to say the least, but my military in s110 is less “chippy” than my military in s30v. Very likely a result of my tendency to use less caution and precision when sharpening s30v.
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I don't even use jigs to sharpen so I have no idea about the angles and all that. I usually start nice and low on a coarse grit 300 to maintain a substantial amount of secondary bevel, and to knock the shoulder off where the primary and secondary bevels meet to convex the edge a bit. On a medium grit 600 I try to stay pretty neutral and make sure the secondary bevel is refined and clean, then on a 1000 grit I raise up a good bit to remove any little burs.

This always gives me sharp durable edge without eating up my precious steel too quickly. But I too recognize how many factors play in to edge retention and toughness and worry about my sharpening technique effecting things for the bad. I think a lot of people need to realize that all the characteristics of a knife effect each other interchangeably. The best alloy made as cleanly as possible will not make up for poor heat treat or bad edge geometry.
 
Korean Hog said:
I don't even use jigs to sharpen so I have no idea about the angles and all that. I usually start nice and low on a coarse grit 300 to maintain a substantial amount of secondary bevel, and to knock the shoulder off where the primary and secondary bevels meet to convex the edge a bit. On a medium grit 600 I try to stay pretty neutral and make sure the secondary bevel is refined and clean, then on a 1000 grit I raise up a good bit to remove any little burs.

This always gives me sharp durable edge without eating up my precious steel too quickly. But I too recognize how many factors play in to edge retention and toughness and worry about my sharpening technique effecting things for the bad. I think a lot of people need to realize that all the characteristics of a knife effect each other interchangeably. The best alloy made as cleanly as possible will not make up for poor heat treat or bad edge geometry.
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Me either. I just follow the angle already there on my spyderco knives. Green dmt diafold or spyderco ultrafine rod. I’ve heard sharpening freehand tends to lead to convexing the edge, but I haven’t seen it yet. My s30v knives are kept pretty toothy in general, I don’t even know the angles or the grit. The only steel I bring to a mirror polish is cruwear!
 
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Thanks for posting this review, it is pretty cool to see a model that is been around so long getting reviewed fresh by a knife enthusiast without prior Endura experience. I didn't get around to trying one until a couple years ago myself, a gray FRN handled FFG in VG-10. Ironically I pulled it out a couple weeks ago and it has been in my pocket 90% of the time since then - I like it that much.

Put mine on the Wicked Edge and checked the bevels with an angle cube (sharpie method). Factory was quite symmetrical and at dead on 17.5 degrees each side. Kept it right there, starting on the diamonds at 600, then 800 and stopped at 1000. It is delightfully sharp now, and seems to be doing quite well holding that edge, better than I anticipated for VG-10. I own/operate a small printing company, so it cuts a lot of paper, plastic banding and tape (plastic and gummed paper). Oranges and apples too. Makes me think I should have kept and put to use the HAP40 one I had briefly last year. Looking forward to the V-Toku2 sprint.
 
Officer's Match said:
Thanks for posting this review, it is pretty cool to see a model that is been around so long getting reviewed fresh by a knife enthusiast without prior Endura experience. I didn't get around to trying one until a couple years ago myself, a gray FRN handled FFG in VG-10. Ironically I pulled it out a couple weeks ago and it has been in my pocket 90% of the time since then - I like it that much.

Put mine on the Wicked Edge and checked the bevels with an angle cube (sharpie method). Factory was quite symmetrical and at dead on 17.5 degrees each side. Kept it right there, starting on the diamonds at 600, then 800 and stopped at 1000. It is delightfully sharp now, and seems to be doing quite well holding that edge, better than I anticipated for VG-10. I own/operate a small printing company, so it cuts a lot of paper, plastic banding and tape (plastic and gummed paper). Oranges and apples too. Makes me think I should have kept and put to use the HAP40 one I had briefly last year. Looking forward to the V-Toku2 sprint.
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I'm waiting on the V-Toku 2 sprints myself :)
 
Endura's been doing good all week.:)

Sweaty pockets, rain water, drops of salt water while fishing, lots of salty sand while working. I wipe my blades down with oil before I leave for work, sometimes at lunch, and always when I get home. No rust to speak of. Don't know how it'd be if I didn't clean, dry, and oil at least 3 times a day, but I don't consider this excessive given the conditions.

Micro chipping was present at the very tip and truly was micro; likely caused from being dragged across copper wire and metal duct. Easily taken care of 5-10 mins with single pass choil-to-tip strokes on a 600 diamond stone.

Blade dulled a bit after 25-30 cuts or about 25' worth of cutting through 1.5" fiberglass duct board, but maintained a working edge for wire skinning and package opening the rest of the day. I found this impressive because fiberglass ductboard will take the razor edge off a knife pretty quick and has left some other high end steel I've tested really dull.

Last lengthy review post of mine on this one, but to wrap it up I'd say the ZDP 189 is great! If you keep it clean and oiled as best as you can and pass it over a 600 diamond after a day of cutting, it won't pit out, very likely won't rust, and will maintain a very sharp edge.

Best edge retention I've experienced, but as with most thin, flat ground, higher hrc (61+) blades you need to take it easy cutting on or near metal the blade could wack.

If you're new to knives, falling down the rabbit hole:rolleyes:, and want a large folder... A vg10 endura is a fantastic start. If you've been in wonderland a whileo_O...ZDP 189 edge retention is a fun thing to experience :p:D

ENDURA in ZDP 189 :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
Korean Hog said:
...
If you're new to knives, falling down the rabbit hole:rolleyes:, and want a large folder... A vg10 endura is a fantastic start. If you've been in wonderland a whileo_O...ZDP 189 edge retention is a fun thing to experience :p:D

ENDURA in ZDP 189 :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
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Very well put ! I’m back to VG10 for now ;)
 
Nice review. I’ve liked knives for a long time but only have started falling down the rabbit hole a couple of years ago. Been starting a nice collection starting with the higher end steels and now have one of the super steels (Elmax). This review has got me drooling for a knife in ZDP... My favorite carry has been the ZT0450 but being late to the scene, I missed out on their ZDP sprint run. Those rarely show up in the used marketplace. I just might have to give the Spyderco a try. Thanks sharing your experience with I.
 
Time for me to bring a VG-10 delica to hair-splitting sharpness during free hand: 30 minutes. For a ZDP Dragonfly: at least 2 hours.
 
hank_rearden said:
Time for me to bring a VG-10 delica to hair-splitting sharpness during free hand: 30 minutes. For a ZDP Dragonfly: at least 2 hours.
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Excellent work! No diamond stones I presume? Will that zdp dragonfly go at least 4 times longer as the delica between sharpenings?
 
I was able to get a brand new stretch(original) in zdp dor under a hundred and I’ve gotta say I’m very impressed with both the steel (Unlaminated zdp189) and the design of the original stretch. It seems to cuts better for me than the endura or the caly. The new stretch2 in zdp is I think $135, but I think the wider belly uses more steel despite the shorter and thinner blade. I have the laminated zdp caly 3.5, and I really want the laminated stretch in hap40 and aogami blue, but at combined $330 aftermarket prices I’ll settle for my man-and ladybugs in those steels. I’m gonna get the stretch2 in vtoku if it doesn’ Sell out on preorder. I know my post is off topic, because none of these steels really compare at all with zdp as far as I understand. Since zdp is unbeatable(as is American s110v) in edge retention the only way to keep interest is to use more exotic steels, with some performance loss. I’m still in.
 
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After a month of moderate-heavy use she's still holding up really well through all my daily tasks: cutting fiberglass ductboard, zip ties, opening packages, rubber hoses and on and on and on. Basically everything an AC tech and/or electrician would need to cut on a daily basis.
Again, I sweat all day and work on the coast, sometimes 10 ft from the Gulf of Mexico. The only rust I can speak of was/ is a very light speckling of surface rust where the knife sits against my sweaty thigh all day.
Most of it was easily wiped off, and all that's left are a few dark spots that I can't even seem to capture on cell phone camera. I wipe my knives down before work, and as soon as I get home with gun oil.
The edge retention of ZDP 189 is the bomb!

I think I've said plenty on the Endura in ZDP 189 :rolleyes:, so I won't be posting in this thread again (bumpin it:p) unless any one has any questions. Thanks :)
 
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