Zero grind knives

[Gradyw]

I can't find anything on google that tells me what this is.. is it a scandi grind or a knife with a grind from the spine all the way to the cutting edge? Send some pictures of u have them. Seen a few topics on these but not sure what they are lol. Thanks!

 

[stjones]

A zero grind is a clean blend from main grind to edge. Looks as if there is no bevel at the cutting edge.

Busse SAR 6

Busse CABS LE

 

[Gradyw]

So scandi is a zero grind?

 

[G. Scott H.]

So scandi is a zero grind?

Yes it is.

 

[Lycosa]

A zero grind can also be a partial grind. Google, kata-kiri-ba.
rolf

 

[ocnLogan]

A zero grind has no secondary bevel. So there is no "blending" two areas of a grind, as primary grind IS the edge.

A scandi grind is probably the most common example of a zero grind, but almost any grind can be "zero" if someone wanted it to be.

 

[sharp_edge]

And what is good about it? Am I correct thay once you nick the edge you will have to regrind the entire blade?

 

[DeadboxHero]

A zero grind is a clean blend from main grind to edge. Looks as if there is no bevel at the cutting edge.

Busse SAR 6

Busse CABS LE

That thick beast does not have a zero grind thats just a convex secondary edge blended into the primary grind.

A zero grind is the just what it sounds like. Its the primary grind ground all the way to the cutting edge with zero secondary bevel

very fragile, but extreme cutting, most have a micro bevel to help deburr but also to make a more robust geometry.

 

[ocnLogan]

You sharpen a zero grind knife just like any other knife. You lay the knife over until the bevel lies flat on the stone, them grind/sharpen it on each side until its sharp again.

A zero ground knife just has a wider bevel to sharpen, so it can take longer. Otherwise its the same though.

So, I wouldn't call that the "whole blade", but i guess I could see how some might describe it that way.

Advantages of zero grinds? Well, scandi grinds are easy to sharpen. Easier than most other grinds imo. The other advantages that you could say they have, can be attributed to other things (just acute edge geometry generally).

So, I don't consider them superior, just another grind that has its niche where it does really well. If you haven't already, pick up a Mora for $10-15, and give it a try. You may find that you really like them.

 

[DeadboxHero]

You sharpen a zero grind knife just like any other knife. You lay the knife over until the bevel lies flat on the stone, them grind/sharpen it on each side until its sharp again.

A zero ground knife just has a wider bevel to sharpen, so it can take longer. Otherwise its the same though.

So, I wouldn't call that the "whole blade", but i guess I could see how some might describe it that way.

Advantages of zero grinds? Well, scandi grinds are easy to sharpen. Easier than most other grinds imo. The other advantages that you could say they have, can be attributed to other things (just acute edge geometry generally).

So, I don't consider them superior, just another grind that has its niche where it does really well. If you haven't already, pick up a Mora for $10-15, and give it a try. You may find that you really like them.

nah, look up the spyderco nilakka, thats a good example of a zero grind. the whole flat grind IS the bevel no sencodary when they first released it.

 

[ocnLogan]

I wasn't aware of that one dbh. Thanks for the heads up.

I wasn't implying that scandi ground knives are the only zero grind knives out there. I just used scandi as an example, as more are familiar with them.

But I'm with you on the definition of a zero grind .

 

[Lapedog]

Spyderco Nilakka original version is a slicing machine. That thing is rediculous, I am glad I got it.

A scandi grind is a type of Zero grind.

 

[falar]

And what is good about it? Am I correct thay once you nick the edge you will have to regrind the entire blade?

That is correct but a zero edge cuts better.

 

[DeadboxHero]

I wasn't aware of that one dbh. Thanks for the heads up.

I wasn't implying that scandi ground knives are the only zero grind knives out there. I just used scandi as an example, as more are familiar with them.

But I'm with you on the definition of a zero grind .

Aww I see, its so difficult to discuss grinds through forums hahaha
yup both on the same page

Spyderco Nilakka original version is a slicing machine. That thing is rediculous, I am glad I got it.

A scandi grind is a type of Zero grind.

I just wish they would remake it in CPM M4, I think thats what helped get the ball rolling on the super steel puukko project.

 

[Heirphoto]

I think you will find that most productiin scandi grind knives today are not true zero grinds. Most seem to buff the edge to make a micro convex which acts like a secondary bevel. My Skookum and Jacklore are both true zeros. Every BHK and LT Wright I have owned had some variant of a micro convex from buffing on hard felt wheels or similar despite some advertising to the contrary

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[FortyTwoBlades]

Zero grinds are the very thickest grind you can have for a fixed edge angle and stock thickness. That is to say that on compound grinds you have the edge angle, and then a lower "relief angle" behind it. Converting a conventional compound-ground knife to a zero grind requires a reduction in edge angle until the edge angle is equal to that of the relief grind. Grinds in general are a superficial term that describes only the cosmetic appearance of the knife when the geometry of the blade is determined by imposing linear angles or arcs (whether hollow or convex) onto the starting stock. Zero grinds have a 0° relief angle relative to the vertical center axis of the blade, hence the name. Whether or not the edge bevel goes all the way up the blade depends on the angle of the grind and the blade stock.

 

[REK Knives]

I wrote this in a thread in the emerson forum but figure it's applicable here too...

Changing the grind is all about dialing in a knife to the way the knife is used. Imho, production knives are set up (most of the time) for the hardest uses the knife will see because the manufacturer knows that there will be all sorts of people buying their knives and wants to minimize warranty issues.

But the problem with this is that angles are wide (often times 25+ dps, even on many customs I've come across!!), and the grinds are thick - both of which lead to them being poor cutters, which is the point that most of us buy knives in the first place: to cut stuff lol.

To clear up a little confusion... here is a chart (note that the term 'bevel' can also equate to 'grind' so 'primary bevel' also means 'primary grind': (note: this is an updated pic)

A zero grind simply means that there is no secondary bevel. A true scandi grind has no secondary bevel and is therefore considered a zero grind. Zero grinds can be chisel ground (only on one side) or v ground (on both sides) and can be done in flat, convex, or even hollow I suppose (although the last would be very fragile).

What our goal is, as users, is to dial in our knives to OUR uses... i.e. the heaviest use that our knife will likely see. The goal is to make the knife as thin as possible for our use without compromising strength (the ability to bend back and hold it's original shape under use) or toughness (the ability to dent instead of fracturing). This will yield a knife that cuts WAY better than stock yet is still plenty durable for all of our needs. A side benefit to thinning out the grind is also that it makes touch ups a TON easier =)

Emersons work well with zero grinds because of the stock thickness and relative low grind heights. You wouldn't want to take a ffg spyderco to a zero grind without severe fragility issues. So if it will mainly be a slicer, I would totally zero grind an emerson. If it will be twisting under zip ties and seeing heavier use I would recommend a secondary bevel of .005-.010" thick depending on the heaviest use. All this being said I rarely recommend going over 15 dps, unless and ONLY with a microbevel (for apex stability). But anything more obtuse than 15 for a secondary (for the most part) is not maximizing performance that you COULD have without compromising any blade integrity.

I always try to err on the side of caution when making grind recommendations...

When zero grinding it aways leaves a burr which can only be removed, in my experience, by buffing in some sort of fashion or adding a microbevel. Otherwise you won't get a true burr free edge which will be very weak (i.e. 'wire edge')

Here's a couple pics...

Here are a couple of scandi grinds (zero grinds)

And a few emersons

Ideally though you would zero or close to it then add a small bevel or only a microbevel (hair-line edge, extremely small). Here are a couple w/ edge thicknesses of .010" thick at 15 dps, and the SATU is a zero convex w/ a micro bevel. Anyway, you get the idea =) Hopefully this helped clear it up. I'm always trying to help us all get on the same page w/ knife terminology so it's less confusing for everyone! I always have to figure out what people mean when they contact me with questions

 

[palonej]

Gorgeous work Josh!!!
👍👍👍
Joe

 

[Twindog]

I don't see a scandi grind as a zero grind, unless the grind goes all the way to the spine. It's more like a high chisel grind.

A zero grind should start at the spine and have no separate edge bevel.

 

[G. Scott H.]

I don't see a scandi grind as a zero grind, unless the grind goes all the way to the spine. It's more like a high chisel grind.

A zero grind should start at the spine and have no separate edge bevel.

To me a zero grind is simply one in which the primary grind goes clear to the edge, with no secondary bevel. It doesn't matter what style of grind it is. I would call what you just described as a full flat zero grind. You can also have a saber zero grind or whatever. :thumbup: