Zero Tolerance Liner Lock Closures?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Well ZT is definitely of my NEXT KNIFE list. I think having 7 locks fail should be an eye opener for safety and not the topic of conspiracy theorists. I highly doubt the guy is trying to falsely discredit ZT's workman ship. Company's can and have been suing people for false clams and accusations online. Glad to see my every day work knife passed the test in that other video - The Kershaw Blur, best 60 Dollar knife EVER!

I wasn’t suggesting a conspiracy, just that one guy lied to provoke controversy and increase # of viewers.
 
I don't understand my 0909, because it fails very easy tapped on a computer pad. I can force no play hear nothing if I try to move the blade up and down. My super strong dad can't get the blade to close from hand pressure. I'm starting to think it won't fail under use and the spine taps just force the blade out by jarring them the only way the liner can go which is outward instead of inwards, due to the angle. Maybe it would wear in and seat deeper with use.

ofne5g.jpg

Sometimes a slow hard pressure won’t cause a lock to fail but a fairly light sudden impact will cause it to fail.

It seems that sometimes a sudden jarring impact will cause the blade to skip off the tang. It is possible that wear will cause the lock to settle in and resolve the problem, but since metal will have to wear away as it wears in I am not sure it will fix it.

Rather if you feel comfortable doing it bend the lockbar in abit further. I use a monkey wrench with a cloth in the jaws to prevent scratches to get better leverage and thus better control. Even just bending it abit further over completely fixed the lockup on my 0620cf which would fail with the lightest spine taps previously.
 
Sometimes a slow hard pressure won’t cause a lock to fail but a fairly light sudden impact will cause it to fail.

It seems that sometimes a sudden jarring impact will cause the blade to skip off the tang. It is possible that wear will cause the lock to settle in and resolve the problem, but since metal will have to wear away as it wears in I am not sure it will fix it.

Rather if you feel comfortable doing it bend the lockbar in abit further. I use a monkey wrench with a cloth in the jaws to prevent scratches to get better leverage and thus better control. Even just bending it abit further over completely fixed the lockup on my 0620cf which would fail with the lightest spine taps previously.

Yes, the angle on the locking surfaces is acute enough that the liner has nowhere to go but outward, when a jarring force is exerted. It merely jars the liner out of lockup. Otherwise it holds.
 
Yes, the angle on the locking surfaces is acute enough that the liner has nowhere to go but outward, when a jarring force is exerted. It merely jars the liner out of lockup. Otherwise it holds.

I think having your Dad push the liner lock over will fix the problem (assuming his fingers are as strong as his biceps). —I hope I didn’t mistake your previous post for another’s.
 
I think having your Dad push the liner lock over will fix the problem (assuming his fingers are as strong as his biceps). —I hope I didn’t mistake your previous post for another’s.

It won't push over not even a smidge.
 
I'd say that it depends on your point of view. I have 3 ZT flippers and none of them have any issues. From reading this thread, my point of view is the large majority of owners are not having issues and that the "problem" has been greatly conflated.

Perhaps.
I’d say that, from a certain perspective, the issue is similar to the QC decline with Benchmade. Every time there’s a thread about that or omega spring failures some people will chime in about their 10 perfect knives & etc etc. Well, I’m one of the guys with shoddy QC and broken springs, and It’s really put me off to the brand.

Point being, even though I’ve got nothing but praise for my ZT’s and have money set aside for more, I totally understand why people like jill jackson jill jackson feel the way they do.
 
Could it be that your expectations for lock up are above the standards of most knife companies? I'm not as experienced as many here but I have 10-12 liner or frame lock knives, have sold a few others and none had any issues that I could see or found while in use.
Possibly, but that reflects more on them than on me.

I believe that most people don't have very high standards. Go check your knives sometime by trying to force the blades closed (not spinewhacking) and see what happens. Most people don't, and will happily use a blade that they think is rock solid when in fact it will slip if pushed.
 
Possibly, but that reflects more on them than on me.

I believe that most people don't have very high standards. Go check your knives sometime by trying to force the blades closed (not spinewhacking) and see what happens. Most people don't, and will happily use a blade that they think is rock solid when in fact it will slip if pushed.

This would be expected on a gas station knife but on a $200 knife is unacceptable. But I also think that a little bit of minor adjustment is sometimes necessary and acceptable in order to make a knife perform as it should. I have read a member describe how he brought his very expensive custom to the maker at a show—who proceeded to bend the lock bar back and hand it back to him, to the horror of the knife owner. I don’t have any idea where on this forum or when, but it kind of shows how makers feel about the issue.
 
This would be expected on a gas station knife but on a $200 knife is unacceptable. But I also think that a little bit of minor adjustment is sometimes necessary and acceptable in order to make a knife perform as it should. I have read a member describe how he brought his very expensive custom to the maker at a show—who proceeded to bend the lock bar back and hand it back to him, to the horror of the knife owner. I don’t have any idea where on this forum or when, but it kind of shows how makers feel about the issue.
I'm totally fine with doing a small amount of tweaking to lock bars on expensive knives to make a knife work really well. But locks should at least function out of the box.
I just bought a Socom Delta that came with pretty bad lock issues, and I paid $370 to add this knife to my collection to boot. Not acceptable at all, but the buyer seemingly didn't even know it was an issue.
 
I'm totally fine with doing a small amount of tweaking to lock bars on expensive knives to make a knife work really well. But locks should at least function out of the box.
I just bought a Socom Delta that came with pretty bad lock issues, and I paid $370 to add this knife to my collection to boot. Not acceptable at all, but the buyer seemingly didn't even know it was an issue.

I just saw one sell on the exchange and was wondering, especially after reading this thread, if there were issues. I’ve had to add blue loctite to several aftermarket Millies I bought because they were off centered and flipped open too fast.
 
I just saw one sell on the exchange and was wondering, especially after reading this thread, if there were issues. I’ve had to add blue loctite to several aftermarket Millies I bought because they were off centered and flipped open too fast.
This is my second one. They don't seem to be very well thought out at all in terms of the lock design. They seem to have issues with lock slip and lock rock because of the way they do their lock insert; it's not contacting in the corner of the lock insert like frame locks are supposed to, but rather in the middle of the insert. Plus, they make the lockup so late by default that if you adjust the lockbar tension, the knife locks up past 100%.
 
Maybe I just don't get it. I don't hold my knife loosely and whack on the spine of the blade...it's a test, but I question the validity from a user's perspective. I'm not giving ZT a pass as they should have tighter tolerances to avoid loose lockup, but try and replicate it by actually holding the blade as you normally would. For the flipper actions, the blade doesn't collapse on your and for the frame-locks, I can't get the locking bar to "jump" off. The video is like limp-wristing a pistol; it's going to cause a malfunction because you're not using it properly. There are a lot of hypothetical, "what if" scenarios, but I just can't buy the OP's post of that video. I've carried folders for almost 30 years in the military, deployments around the world, and four combat tours, and I'm using several here in Afghanistan right now.

And...I...Have...Never...Seen...A...Knife...Whacked...Like...That...Ever...During...Normal...Hard...Use

Again, I'm not giving an excuse to the poor execution from ZT, but those that think this is such a crisis have likely never used their knives in an abusive environment and are seriously over-reacting to a nonsensical test to induce lock failure. If you fear hard use will result in lock-failure, put your folders up and stick with fixed blades. Sorry, but I'm not very sympathetic to the outrage and fear...and yes, I've used ZTs pretty hard over here and I'm still counting all ten digits.

I actually don't mind the analysis from the guy in the video, but the testing method is simply absurd from a real-use perspective.

Follow up...so I beat on the spine of the opened blade while holding in my hand like a normal person. The only one I was concerned about was the ZT 0630. I used a roll of 100mph tape and beat on it as hard as the video. No failure (thank goodness). I even did a couple "accidental" whacks on the underside of the table in my room.



So, I call B.S. on the pansy method of testing lock failure. Limp wristing isn't a valid testing method. I will say that the flipper knives do offer an extra measure of security by using your finger to secure the blade open even if "whacked" on the spine disengages the liner/frame lock. I think many are really over-analyzing the failure without addressing actual application.

ROCK6
 
Last edited:
Ms. Jackson life is short. Bend that liner and I will bet you will be all set, I did that to the liner of my XM-2 and it was then perfect that was after the 1st attempt .The liner went into full contact with the tang angle wise and I was at peace finally after being so irritated by the angular mismatch. On your 0909 the full contact you should then be seeing along with increased unlock effort should put a stop to your problem. It is easy to do as well as long as you are patient about it. Screw ZT they aren't the issue.
 
Well I was curious at work and tried the lock on my 920. The lightest of tap on the palm of my hand caused the lock to slip.

Now I'm not crying bloody murder. I'm not swearing off ZT. I haven't had the lock fail under any use over the last several months of carry and use. It felt like a bank vault up until this point.

However, I'm not going to be an apologist for this. I don't see it as the same as limp wristing, at least how mine failed. I didn't smack the bejeezus out it, it didn't hold my mouth just right to get it fail. I literally tapped the back of the blade to my open palm using no more pressure or force than the weight of the knife and it folded.

I'm a contractor. I use my knives. I put my hand and arms down into some tight places to make odd angle cuts. One of the reasons I have carried a ZT for years is that I felt very comfortable that they wouldn't fail on me. The amount of pressure at the very conventional angle could easily result in a lock failure.
If I give the lock a good squeeze to really jam the frame to the center+ of the blade, it goes nowhere. However, that seems a bit annoying to have to do to ensure the blade stays locked.

Once again, I'm not piling on ZT. Plus, the 920 isn't one of my work knives. The 350 is rock solid and I carry a 909 as my go to hiking folder. That said, there is no reason, imho, that my dad's $30 abused Buck 110 will lock up more reliably than my 200 dollar ZT. I still like my ZTs, but I am not going to blindly buy into their tank-like marketing without checking my knife. Not a deal breaker, but I kind of expect more from a premium knife.
 
Possibly, but that reflects more on them than on me.

I believe that most people don't have very high standards. Go check your knives sometime by trying to force the blades closed (not spinewhacking) and see what happens. Most people don't, and will happily use a blade that they think is rock solid when in fact it will slip if pushed.

Thanks. I just checked every liner and framelock folder I own, from a Kershaw Al Mar to 3 CRK's. None had any movement at all when I firmly pushed on the spine of the blades to force them closed.

It's understandable that standards are variable among knife owners. But I will stick to my point that some have expectations that are unreasonable in use. Rock6's post 233 sums it up well IMO.
 
I worked on a Ferrari once. Had a leak at the gearbox case. Why would a $200,000 car leak oil? Shouldn't it not ever leak anywhere always? Isnt that a reasonable expectation based on the cost of that car?
 
I worked on a Ferrari once. Had a leak at the gearbox case. Why would a $200,000 car leak oil? Shouldn't it not ever leak anywhere always? Isnt that a reasonable expectation based on the cost of that car?
No that's not reasonable. What is reasonable is that when the car is brand new and functioning as designed, it shouldn't leak oil.

You're comparing a broken car to a new knife.

When an automaker, Ferrari or Ford, screw up a design so that it doesn't work properly, they issue a recall so they don't get their butts sued by reasonable people with reasonable expectations that their cars drive.

It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that a lock should stay locked when you are tapping it lightly. As I said, I am learning.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top