Zero Tolerance Liner Lock Closures?

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I wonder if something like the Ruike "Beta Lock" or the other rotatory locks for frame lock knives is a solution to the problem (again, for a problem that isn't a problem for me, but still shouldn't be a problem):

Ruike-P135SF-Wharncliffe-Gray-Satin-BHQ-75907-er-side-large.jpg

Lion-Steel-SR-11A-Orange-AI-SR11A-OS-BHQ-72083-js-side-large.jpg


Of course, the counter-remark would be don't make something more complicated if you can't get it right the first time. I have both the Ruike and Lionsteel. The Ruike's "Beta Lock" is actually very well done...

ROCK6
 
I just tested every single liner or frame lock that I own for spine whacks on a piece of wood, and there were 4 total failures. Tangram Amarillo, Kershaw Skyline (14c28n and Damascus, both failed), and my ZT 0630. Only the 0630 was consistent, and it's my knife with the weakest lock bar pressure. Detent is okay, but the lock just has enough strength to get it to the lockup position. This is not an issue with ZT knives in general, it's just weak lock bars. The Böker Plus Exskelibur did this too, and bending the lockbar in a tiny bit fixed it completely.

It's actually kind of a testament to ZT machining capability, they can give a nice strong detent and perfect action without having a high pressure lockbar at all. I'm willing to bet that most, if not all of the lock failures can be fixed by a little more lockbar pressure.
 
I have a ZT 0393 in for warranty work right now for this issue. It fails simply by hitting it to the palm of my hand. Regardless how you feel about the test, a $240 knife that has a frame/liner lock should not do that. I’m giving ZT a chance to fix it right. A tan folder from Walmart that I bought for $3 is more sturdy than a ZT. That’s a huge problem for me.
 
I agree with Firefighterguy. A 240 dollar knife should not fail with spine whacks. I just now picked up a Schrade flipper that I got in a two pack, one serrated, one not and I whacked the crap out of it on my desk and it held firm. This is an 8 dollar knife or two for $16 in my case. I swear I could drive in a ten penny nail with my Kershaw Blur which I also whacked the hell out of after first reading this post.
 
I've sold all of my ZTs and I've convinced four guys NOT to buy zero tolerance knives. They purchased Spyderco and Reates instead. I'm doing what I can to get the word out.

The YouTube video speaks for itself. Even one of the guys on the knife nuts podcast had a personal story how a new ZT folded on him and hurt him pretty bad.

Where are you ZT? Why aren't you addressing this issue?
 
firefighterguy said:
I have a ZT 0393 in for warranty work right now for this issue. It fails simply by hitting it to the palm of my hand.
Click to expand...

Let us know about the knife after it comes back. Even though my ZT’s don’t have the problem, I’m still watching the issue and curious about your outcome.
 
B6BDFBEA-D3CB-434F-979B-4C2BD6346917.jpeg This is a photo of the lockup or my 0393. You can see that the frame lock (which is already really thin) doesn’t fully contact the blade. So lockup is super early. The angle of the tang is very steep so it’s not going to change much. I took photos of the knife before I sent it off so I can compare it to when it gets back to see what they did. I’m just a noob but it seems pretty obvious why it fails. Poor lock geometry.
 
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Update: I got the knife back from ZT 13 days after I dropped it off at the post office. Fantastic turn around imo. However, that’s the only good thing that I can say about the warranty work.

Paperwork says they replaced the lock bar insert. The lockbar now contacts less of the blade tang than it did before. It came back with lock rock AND it now fails a spine whack to my palm with one hit. Not a spine whack to wood or concrete. To the fleshy palm of my hand!

Before I sent it in it usually took a couple taps to my hand to fail. IMO they sent it back more unsafe than they got it.

For those who say their knives have lock rock because people are whacking them I present mine. Fresh back from ZT with a new lockbar insert and it has lock rock.

I honestly don’t know what to do. I’ll call em again tomorrow and talk to CS.

I’ve now sent this knife in twice. I effectively have a $240 Slipjoint at this point.

I’m done with ZTs forever. I’ve sold off my others. At this point all I want is a functional knife so I can cut my losses and sell it in good conscience. I couldn’t sell it now in good faith as is.

I’m kinda tempted to pay $30 for a blade replacement and hope that fixes it.

Here’s the new lockup. 95F7A482-9A19-48A4-B816-8DD044D10496.jpeg

Maybe 10-15% lockup.
 
firefighterguy said:
The lockbar now contacts less of the blade tang than it did before. It came back with lock rock AND it now fails a spine whack to my palm with one hit. Not a spine whack to wood or concrete. To the fleshy palm of my hand!
Click to expand...

I ain’t gona lie, that’s a disappointment for me too! I’ve had great satisfaction with ZT over the relatively short time I’ve been into knives as a hobby and only heard good things about their CS/warranty.

I’m not giving up on them, but I’m more glad than ever there’s an AD in my town.

Give us some updates as this continues to play out.
 
firefighterguy said:
Update: I got the knife back from ZT 13 days after I dropped it off at the post office. Fantastic turn around imo. However, that’s the only good thing that I can say about the warranty work.

Paperwork says they replaced the lock bar insert. The lockbar now contacts less of the blade tang than it did before. It came back with lock rock AND it now fails a spine whack to my palm with one hit. Not a spine whack to wood or concrete. To the fleshy palm of my hand!

Before I sent it in it usually took a couple taps to my hand to fail. IMO they sent it back more unsafe than they got it.

** SNIP ** for space

Maybe 10-15% lockup.
Click to expand...

Well... I can't tell you how disappointing that is to me. I only have a couple of ZTs left after thinning out the collection. The ones I have now are great examples of utility style knife making.

Knowing that they certainly must make a million knives a year, I was concerned but not overly so that there were problems with some of their products. I thought the best course was to immediately examine any new purchases when I receive them, only buy from a reputable vendor that stood behind their product 100%, or simply buy a ZT I can hold in my hand. I pretty much do that anyway these days.

But to give them the opportunity to fix a problem knife and have them send it back in worse condition is completely unacceptable. Who knows the culprits... laziness, unconcern, lack of quality control? Regardless, if given a second chance, anything less than a full repair and tune up is nothing more than a poor excuse.

I have had my own business now for almost 40 years. Not every day is my best day, I don't always have the best guys on the job, and then in turn they don't have the best days, and then stuff just happens. So, in managing my clients, I always tell them "IF YOU SEE SOMETHING YOU DON'T LIKE, DON'T SIT ON IT, TELL ME AND GIVE ME A CHANCE TO CORRECT IT". I can't fix what I don't know, and it is unfair for anyone to expect me to be perfect. Since my business is referral only, if my client has a legitimate concern or problem I will do what needs to be done to make them happy.

I am thinking that between us guys that see knives as nice tools for work, we will be saying "hey, I actually have one of the OLD 0909s, you know, before ZT went to hell making collectable jewelry knives." Seems there are a lot of knife companies that have gone down this path, and it never seems to work out well.

Robert
 
firefighterguy said:
Update: I got the knife back from ZT 13 days after I dropped it off at the post office. Fantastic turn around imo. However, that’s the only good thing that I can say about the warranty work.

Paperwork says they replaced the lock bar insert. The lockbar now contacts less of the blade tang than it did before. It came back with lock rock AND it now fails a spine whack to my palm with one hit. Not a spine whack to wood or concrete. To the fleshy palm of my hand!

Before I sent it in it usually took a couple taps to my hand to fail. IMO they sent it back more unsafe than they got it.

For those who say their knives have lock rock because people are whacking them I present mine. Fresh back from ZT with a new lockbar insert and it has lock rock.

I honestly don’t know what to do. I’ll call em again tomorrow and talk to CS.

I’ve now sent this knife in twice. I effectively have a $240 Slipjoint at this point.

I’m done with ZTs forever. I’ve sold off my others. At this point all I want is a functional knife so I can cut my losses and sell it in good conscience. I couldn’t sell it now in good faith as is.

I’m kinda tempted to pay $30 for a blade replacement and hope that fixes it.

Here’s the new lockup. View attachment 971616

Maybe 10-15% lockup.
Click to expand...
This is the issue I have with relying on warranty repair to fix issues like yours. You can't really count on the guy repairing your knife to spend more than 5 seconds looking at it, and you can almost guarantee they won't properly check for lock functionality (ie. Firmly and for lock movement). This is as good a reason as any to only buy from companies that take the smaller details seriously.

I sent ZT warranty an 0200 once with similar issues to yours, and they also did basically nothing to it and sent it back. The lock held under light loads but slid across the tang too much for comfort, but apparently that's a job well done in the eyes of their warranty department.
 
firefighterguy said:
Paperwork says they replaced the lock bar insert. The lockbar now contacts less of the blade tang than it did before. It came back with lock rock AND it now fails a spine whack to my palm with one hit. Not a spine whack to wood or concrete. To the fleshy palm of my hand!
Click to expand...
Keep sending it back till its good. Rather annoying they can't seem to fix the problem. They may end up giving you credit if they can't.
 
Just sold the last of my ZTs. Funny thing is, I don't miss them. I'm carrying a little Buck 503 today. You know what? That blade fulfills all I need a knife to do at work, and nearly all the needs I have at home. I'm done with the whole overbuilt/tactical BS.
 
I have owned around 40 ZTs. I now own one (0562) and it is rock solid. That said, I don't plan on buying any more because of these issues. I am happy with my Spydies and other brands that I trust. A shame really.
 
This thread has allowed me to convince a 5th guy not to buy zero tolerance anymore. Ridiculous
 
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