Zwilling J.A. Henkels Small Kitchen Knife

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Mister Coffee

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Dec 6, 2020
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Found this in the back of a kitchen drawer. It may still have the factory edge on it. It's a pointy lil b*st*rd and plenty sharp, even if the point is damaged and there's a roll in the edge that is like a chip. It's a full-flat grind on very thin stock, but there almost no flex in the blade. Something about this knife tells me that, if I'm not careful, two things are going to happen: 1) I'll be making a trip to the Emergency Room, and 2) I'll be getting a new nickname. I think I'm going to keep calling it the Lil B*st*rd.

Hanging around with you guys has made me a knife snob, so I'm already thinking about sharpening this one. Do you think I could work from an Extra Fine Diamond stone to a ceramic ultra fine to a strop, or must I start with a Course Diamond Stone? Probably start with the Course, right?

Thanks.

 
If you have a roll, maybe try a strop or steel to see what happens. If you have to sharpen the roll out, start with the course, it will just save a lot of time.

If it's sharp, then maybe stick to the finer stone or just use the ceramic rod. Many manufactured kitchen knives are fairly soft so they sharpen pretty fast and are really easy to maintain and get really sharp.
 
Zwilling uses the same steel for all its kitchen knives, it's fairly soft and easy to grind. no coarse stone needed. i always sharpen mine with 204M, which gets you a burr in no man's time.

from my experience, this soft ductile steel is challenging to deburr (as is VG10). i can do it, you can do it, am just saying.

nice knife there mr.!
 
With diamond as (hypothetically) the only available option on a blade steel like that, any minor damage like rolled or dented/chipped edges I'd usually try to handle with nothing coarser than the Coarse (325) DMT. If a Fine (600) were available, I'd preferably start there. With a diamond hone, a light-to-moderate touch is all that's needed - just enough for steady control of the angle and to maintain flush contact with the bevels.

The steel used in these knives doesn't warrant diamond in the first place, but that doesn't mean it can't be used. And assuming it is stainless, it'll be of a ductile nature that tends to clog a dry diamond hone - more so on the coarser hones. In situations like that, I'd always make sure the hone is lubricated for any grinding or reshaping. I like to use mineral oil for that, on diamond hones.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
With diamond as (hypothetically) the only available option on a blade steel like that, any minor damage like rolled or dented/chipped edges I'd usually try to handle with nothing coarser than the Coarse (325) DMT. If a Fine (600) were available, I'd preferably start there. With a diamond hone, a light-to-moderate touch is all that's needed - just enough for steady control of the angle and to maintain flush contact with the bevels.

The steel used in these knives doesn't warrant diamond in the first place, but that doesn't mean it can't be used. And assuming it is stainless, it'll be of a ductile nature that tends to clog a dry diamond hone - more so on the coarser hones. In situations like that, I'd always make sure the hone is lubricated for any grinding or reshaping. I like to use mineral oil for that, on diamond hones.
Click to expand...

Mineral oil on diamond is not recommended. Just use water.

Just one easy source for additional reference.
www.sharpeningsupplies.com

Can I Use Oil on Diamond Stones?

Can I Use Oil on Diamond Stones? Is it ok to use oil on my diamond stones? As our article Should I Use My Sharpening Stones Wet or Dry? illustrates, we strongly recommend using a fluid of some kind whenever sharpening on a stone. For diamond stones, we recommend water.
www.sharpeningsupplies.com
 
Having used it on diamond hones for years, I'm certain there's no good reason not to use oil on a diamond hone. Years worth of use this way has shown me it's a great way to keep them working well, as opposed to the contrary opinions which haven't offered proof otherwise. There's literally nothing to be harmed in using them with oil. I've read all the recommendations for using water only. And in spite of recommendations against using oil, I've yet to see any of them provide a good explanation as to why. Oil IS actually better at suspending the swarf than is water (swarf sinks in water). So, in that regard, oil is better at keeping the swarf from sticking, as most of it stays suspended above the surface by the oil. Again, having used it this way, I can speak to firsthand knowledge of how well it works.

Leaving dirty oil on a diamond hone can gum it up. But common sense dictates cleaning a diamond hone after each use, no matter whether it's used dry, with water or with oil. And cleaning is easy with some dish soap & water and an old toothbrush. Takes no more than 5 minutes to do it.

It all comes down to preference. There's no harm to the hone or the process in using oil or water. I do sometimes use them dry for lighter touch-up work. And where I live in the arid desert southwest, water evaportates too quickly on the hone, leaving muddy swarf to stick even more tenaciously. So oil is a no-brainer solution there, for keeping swarf from clinging to the hone. The argument that oil is too messy on a diamond hone really isn't a big deal anyway. Because the hone doesn't absorb the oil, only a very light sheen of oil, applied in just a few drops, is needed to keep swarf from sticking, which isn't enough to 'drip' all over the place and make a big mess. And a microfiber towel is great for periodically wiping the hone during use, after which a couple or three more drops of fresh oil can be applied.
 
Thanks for these great replies, gentlemen. :)

1) Am I right in thinking that, if I don't know how much sharpening I need to do, I should start with the least aggressive method (maybe green compound on a strop) and move progressively toward the most aggressive (in my case, Course Diamond Stone), testing along the way for sharpness ?

2) Some replies above have recommended using water or oil on the diamond stone. Does anyone use a drop or two of dish soap with water?
 
Mister Coffee said:
Thanks for these great replies, gentlemen. :)

1) Am I right in thinking that, if I don't know how much sharpening I need to do, I should start with the least aggressive method (maybe green compound on a strop) and move progressively toward the most aggressive (in my case, Course Diamond Stone), testing along the way for sharpness ?

2) Some replies above have recommended using water or oil on the diamond stone. Does anyone use a drop or two of dish soap with water?
Click to expand...
1. I sharpen most kitchen knives with ceramic hones...whether the bench variety or Sharpmaker. They rarely need aggressive sharpening, and very rarely the ministrations of a diamond hone. (India or Crystolon are other excellent alternatives.)

2. You can use diamond dry, with water, with soapy water, with mineral oil to your heart's content. All work. Use the method that you find most practical and rewarding in your usage.
 
Mister Coffee said:
Thanks for these great replies, gentlemen. :)

1) Am I right in thinking that, if I don't know how much sharpening I need to do, I should start with the least aggressive method (maybe green compound on a strop) and move progressively toward the most aggressive (in my case, Course Diamond Stone), testing along the way for sharpness ?

2) Some replies above have recommended using water or oil on the diamond stone. Does anyone use a drop or two of dish soap with water?
Click to expand...
With kitchen knives like the type mentioned, my own preference for setting a new edge is with an India stone. Depending on the edge thickness or how much reprofiling is needed, I might start with the coarse side of my India (IB8 dual-grit C/F stone). But, with edges that're already ground pretty thin, sometimes I'll just start on the fine side of the India. I really LIKE the finish produced by that side of the India stone, so I use it when I can. I DO use the India with oil, as was intended for this stone.

Once the edge geometry is set, I've liked using a smooth (polished) kitchen steel for maintenance, if all it really needs is realignment of a slightly rolled edge. If a little more is needed to restore a worn edge, I've liked using a medium Spyderco ceramic (on the Sharpmaker), in just a very few, very light passes on the rod corners, to restore and even enhance the edge after the Fine India.

I minimize stropping with any compound, for the most part. Most of the stropping I'll do is immediately after setting the edge on the Fine India. I use just a clean piece of paper laid over the oiled stone for that. That's enough to clean up the loosely-attached burrs and/or align the edge straight, without diminishing the toothy bite I like from the Fine India.

So, per the question posted, when noticing the edge needs some tuning up, I'll generally go to the polished kitchen steel first. I test the edge by slicing paper. If the polished steel doesn't quite get it restored to my likeness, I'll go to the medium Spyderco ceramic. If I stay ahead of it in this manner, I rarely have to go back to the India stone to keep these knives tuned up. For a while, I relied mainly on the steeling of the edge to maintain it. But, after repeated realignments on the polished steel, the edge will become weak & unstable from all that bending back/forth. I used to reset it on the Fine India, when that happens. But more & more lately, I've really started to like tuning these up on the medium Spyderco instead, if/when the steeling isn't quite getting it done.

With your diamond hones, I'd very likely just go straight to the EF with just a very, very light touch in a minimal number of strokes. Too much stropping on these steel types with green compound tends to polish the toothy bite out of an edge pretty soon. That's why my preference is usually to avoid stropping with compound, for the most part.
 
Mister Coffee said:
Thanks for these great replies, gentlemen. :)

1) Am I right in thinking that, if I don't know how much sharpening I need to do, I should start with the least aggressive method (maybe green compound on a strop) and move progressively toward the most aggressive (in my case, Course Diamond Stone), testing along the way for sharpness ?

2) Some replies above have recommended using water or oil on the diamond stone. Does anyone use a drop or two of dish soap with water?
Click to expand...


Normally I start by sighting down and across the edge. If the line has any concavity from being sharpened with a honing rod or pull-through I'll start by resetting the entire edge - grinding the cutting edge until the profile geometry is correct.

If it has a forged bolster. that normally needs to be ground back to allow the entire cutting edge to contact the board.

At this point I'm reaching at least for a coarse plate or stone if not an extra coarse depending. I'm going to follow that directly with a microbevel on an EF or EEF plate or stone, leaving behind a good bit of tooth - most of what a paring knife does in my kitchen is offhand cutting, the edge doesn't need to be super refined and will hold up a lot longer with a more aggressive edge. Leaving it with a good bit of tooth also allows it to be "steeled" on a coffee cup rim a few times by way of quick touch-up.

For diamond plates I like to use a pinch of baking soda and a few drops of water - Bobs Red Mill is a nice fine grade. On my EF and EEF plates I just use water.

One can use oil, but I found it to gum the plate over time. I also have used a block of oak - just rub the plate with it using a drop or three of water and the wood that comes off forms a thin slurry that suspends swarf and prevents the plate from clogging. Needless to say this doesn't work so well on the EF and finer plates either.

Plain water also works well enough with or without a drop of soap - whatever you use, the plate will need some form of periodic cleaning to stay working its best, either with denatured or isopropyl alcohol, soap and water with a brush or barkeeper's friend.
 
After taking a short break to read and absorb more information about sharpening, I went back to this small kitchen knife. First, I tried to tune it up on the Green Elephant Ceramic Rod. It helped a little bit. Then, I went to the Spyderco Double Stuff. I got a paper slicing edge off of the medium grit (brown side). It sliced through the coated receipt paper you get when you pay for your groceries. It sliced a little bit less enthusiastically on copy paper. At this point, things were looking pretty good. But when I followed with the fine-grit (white side) of the Double Stuff, the edge seemed to get duller. Not sure why. Maybe I failed to hold the edge at the correct angle on the fine-grit (?).

I used a Sharpie all the way through, by the way.
 
I have a set of Henckels Professional S knives, including one that is very similar to yours (31020-80, 3"). My method of touching up the edge generally starts on a fine (25 micron), or extra fine (9 micron) DMT plate, though sometimes I just skip ahead to the Spyderco fine (6 micron) ceramic stone, instead. After that, I move on to stropping with a green compound (not sure what the micron size is). If I feel like there is a stubborn burr on the edge that won't go away, I will very lightly drag the blade (slicing motion) over a scrap piece of hardwood (usually oak) that I have laying around from my woodworking. That will usually clean up the burr, and then I finish up by stropping, again. Seems to work OK for me.
 
Mister Coffee said:
After taking a short break to read and absorb more information about sharpening, I went back to this small kitchen knife. First, I tried to tune it up on the Green Elephant Ceramic Rod. It helped a little bit. Then, I went to the Spyderco Double Stuff. I got a paper slicing edge off of the medium grit (brown side). It sliced through the coated receipt paper you get when you pay for your groceries. It sliced a little bit less enthusiastically on copy paper. At this point, things were looking pretty good. But when I followed with the fine-grit (white side) of the Double Stuff, the edge seemed to get duller. Not sure why. Maybe I failed to hold the edge at the correct angle on the fine-grit (?).

I used a Sharpie all the way through, by the way.
Click to expand...
I have two of the medium/fine ceramic DoubleStuff hones from Spyderco. Bought them many years (maybe 15+ years) ago. One thing I noticed with mine, they weren't quite dead-flat. They tended to be dished a bit, leaving the edges of the hone somewhat upturned or above the plane of the central part of the hones. I started looking for that, after noticing it was too easy to roll or burr the edge as it dragged across those upturned edges of the hone. Might check for that with a straightedge (steel ruler, etc) laid across the width of the hone. Look for light gaps underneath, between the edges of the hone.

Sintered ceramics in general are somewhat prone to creating burrs on edges, if pressure is just barely too heavy or if the held angle is too high. Even more so, when sharpening ductile, low-alloy stainless such as used in these kitchen knives. When I use a ceramic hone, I always start the honing pass a little bit low in angle, then very gradually raise the spine until the apex just lightly skims the surface, always using the very lightest touch possible. All of that, to avoid rolling or burring the edge. I always picture, in my mind, just 'brushing' a light layer of dust from the hone, as the gauge for pressure used. Sometimes even the weight of the blade might be too much - you want to keep it as featherlight as possible.
 
Good advice, gentlemen.

It's cocktail time here in the West (okay, it's a little early, but what the hell), so I'm going to pause for a moment and consider what you all have said. Before quitting for the day, I re-honed the knife on the medium-grit (brown side) Spyderco Double Stuff. At present, there is no burr on either side (I checked with flashlight and thumb). Let us not forget that I'm a dumbass beginner, and, in all likelihood, my problem is that I'm not holding my angle consistently on the fine grit (white side) stone. But I will check the flatness of the stones tomorrow. After all, I'd be happy to blame my equipment for my failures. ;)
 
i have a portable double stone too (ruby vs white emerald), used it a lot for such knives. holding stone in left hand, holding knife in right hand gives you utmost degree of freedom, so i ended up inventing all sorts of freaky non-textbook-like movements in my efforts of edge-leading deburring.

i should try it again next time!
 
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