Custom makes fails to deliver - what should I do??

B

Blilious

Joined
Dec 30, 1999
Messages
1,587
I need your opinion on this one:

I ordered a DA folder from one of the top makers a year ago.

I had another friend order another one with me - and the maker was kind enough to nock 25 $ off the price for that.

I ordered carbon fiber scales, and 420V steel, my friend 420V and micarta.

The maker said it would take 6 month.

I waited ever so patiently. Now, a year later I managed to get him to bring the knife to the classic custom show that I am going to visit.

Then he emailed me - he can't remember which one I ordered - and which my friend.

So I answer him, and - surprise!

He now said: sorry - no 420V - only CPM 440V or 154 CM.

He is kind enough to offer me to choose any one of a few knives he has ready for the show.

He said he didn't have 420V when he started working on these...

My question is: what do I do? This is a very high end DA folder and
clearly an investment grade buy - and I want it to have the finest in steel - and that is what I gathered 420V is...

As I see it - I have two options: take one and shut up. Or ask him to
make what I wanted in the first place - and wait a few (as in A FEW) more months...

This maker takes no deposit - so I haven't paid anything yet...

What do you say?
 
If it were me, I'd have a look at the knives he's currently offering. You may be pleasantly surprised. 154CM is an excellent steel from all I've heard and read about it. When you run a knife shop by yourself it's easy to get swamped with information overload. Especially if you're even partly disorgainzed (like me). At least the maker was honest and told you that he just plain old forgot. Still no excuse I know. But, looking at the big picture, it just broadens your horizon and increases your choices. But stick with your guns if you're not satisfied with the other choices. Since the maker didn't ask for a deposit, you're not out any money. Paitience is a virtue when dealing with knifemakers. And common courtesy goes a long way as well.
 
He just forgot, which we all do at times. If I liked his work I would just stick with him. BTW, 154cm ain't bad for a stainless steel.
 
Sometimes you have to be willing to wait for what you REALLY want.

I am waiting on a couple knives right now and although waiting is not easy I am confident that the result will be worth it.

On the other hand is 420V really that important? I don't know.
 
The difference is in the vanadium content - 420V has more of it - hence it holds an edge longer - and thus harder to sharpen..

Also - the current "hype" in upper scale steels - is 420V - and I think it is in use by custom makers only - hence - it is more collectible...
 
You know. I think this splitting hairs about steel has really gone a bit far. I think it is most important on a using knife. If you are going to buy a knife for an investment, the steel type holds to perceived desirability. But, look at it this way, do you know of any knives by makers like Ron Lake, W.D. Pease that are 420V steel. I haven't see any. There values are way up there. But, they didn't start there..

If you like the knife, you like the maker, the steel is decent on the knife, and the workmanship is what you want, go for it.

I know it is a bit disturbing when you are anticipating getting the knife and the maker forgot. But, after all, makers are only human..

I like bg42 myself. Especially on a using knife... It holds an edge great.

There will always be a better steel coming along down the pike. Right now, 420V is in. Next year, something else will be better. So the limelight changes, but the maker is what makes the knife valuable.

I haven't seen Ron Lake make a 420V knife yet. Has anyone???

Just my two cents.
 
Bli asked for 420V. It's what he wants. Custom knives are about getting exactly what you want. If he wanted the knife made of AUS-8, that's his choice, and it's what the knife should be made of, regardless of how good any other steel is.

If you're going to be truly satisfied with something else, fine - but if you're going to look at the knife in the future, regretting that you "settled", then either cancel or wait. You have no deposit invested, so there's no loss except for the wait time.

As for the delay issue, par for the course. I've had more custom orders delayed than delivered on time.
 
I'll second what Brian said. If you want 420V, you should get it. I personally wouldn't be real happy with taking my second choice from a custom maker. Even if it's a fine steel, it's not what you wanted, and I frankly wouldn't ever be able to fully enjoy using the knife if I'd settled for something I didn't want just to conclude the transaction.
 
Ok if this is a high end custom DA are you even going to use it? So if your not going to use it then why does it matter what the steel is? What if the steel is different, are you going to go hiking through the amazon with it? If it was high end it would have a damascus blade! I don't think that Bob Loveless ever used 420V
My 2C
 
If I were you I would cancel the order. Buying a ciustom is about getting what you want. I think the maker is jerking you around. Tell him to stuff it and get another maker. Darrel Ralph or Tom Mayo wouldn't do that.
 
Brian put into words something I felt - this is NOT what I wanted.

The knife would be great in 440V - but I waited for a year for 420V - am I splitting hairs about the steel? - Probably - but hey - as BT said correctly - this is a custom knife - and I want it to be done to my requirements- getting just any knife at a show - is one thing – you pick it up, you like it – you get it. Period. But ordering what you really want and waiting for over a year of it is something totally different.

Striper is also right - am I really going to use such an expensive knife? - Probably not - I may carry it a few times – even cut something light on this special Sunday…but heavy cutting to the point of telling the different in the steel - very unlikely...

But as Brain said - if I will look at it and think - heck - I shouldn't have made that decision...kinda ruins the entire fun of getting that special custom - doesn't it?

One thing has to be clear here - the maker is an upstanding gentleman - he is not jerking me around, and he is doing all that he can to make it up to me right now - and he was generous enough to let me pick out of a large amount of DA folders he has on his hands now - regardless of the price.

I think I will go and look at the ones he has with him – and take it from there.

Very good advice guys – thank for helping me with this one.

any more thoughts?
 
Originally posted by Blilious

I think I will go and look at the ones he has with him – and take it from there.

any more thoughts?
Click to expand...

That sounds like the best way to go. If he doesn't have anything that interests you at the show you can decide then if you want to keep waiting or pass on the deal. It sounds like the maker is doing his best to make up for human error.
 
Hi Blilious,

While I agree that buying customs means getting exactly what you want, I also think that it is important to "buy the maker"...in this case, the maker seems to be a nice fellow....if I were in your position, I would definitely go see what he has to offer and/or I would consider taking the knife in the lesser steel at a substantial discount...the bottom line is that I would not simply cancel the order with a "it's not what I wanted, tough for you"...(I know that this is not your attitude...I was making a general statement).

RL
 
Bli,

After 18 years in custom knives, I can tell that almost every custom knife maker I have delt with has been off on their deliveries at one time or another.

I know the maker you are speaking of, and quite frankly I wouldn't wish the BS he has had to deal with for the last couple of years on anyone.

The problem with being self-employed is that if your not working there is no one to step in for you. This has been the case here.

Is it fair, no. Should you get the custom knife you want, yes. Does this maker (and the others) want to make your knife exactly to your specifications...yes.

Are you splitting hairs on the steel? Depends on what the primary purpose of the knife is.

As I wrote in my book, when you dealing with makers just ask them flat out, all BS aside. When is my knife going to be ready. You will not get the answer you want, but you will get a more realistic answer.

So if you really want the knife in 420V, then talk with the maker. Tell him to give you a realistic date. Tell him 6 weeks out your going to call him and remind him.

This will probably work out best for both of you.
 
Somtimes things slip through the cracks.
Life has its way of changing the coarse of what makers are building from one time to the next.
I hope you get it worked out.

No one is perfect.
 
I think you have it figured out pretty well. With any luck, when you check out the knives he has with him you will find something you really want. That would be the perfect scenerio for both of you. If not you may have a difficult decision to make. Just go with the way you feel. It is the only way you will be happy in the end.
 
2002....The year I ordered/commissioned my very first knives made just for me. The three makers I asked, were straight-forward in their response to me: "If that is EXACTLY what you want, it's going to take at least a year.
I tried with one maker to narrow that down. He was very cordial, and very honest. If he could Make the quality knives he Makes quicker, maintaining the EXACT same level he demands of HIMSELF he would not have a backorder. Because NO ONE would be ordering from him to begin with. Perfection takes time.
So, patiently I wait, and while I drool at their "just completed knives" they post here, I realize that the lucky formites getting their "Custom knife" now, placed the order a YEAR AGO in order to get it.
In the meantime, I will just keep buying production stuff and sleep in my garage...........wolf;)
 
I held off on this topic for a while and enjoyed the posts that have been made in response.

I know that delivery time is an area of Custom collecting/using that really gets under more than a few friends skins. For guys like Les, Larry, Dave, Pat, David, Jay and Karen, Larry, Kevin, David and others it can get hairy and that can be another subject all together.

As far as getting the knife in the materials you wanted, unless something else they have made really gets ya good, I would wait or call it off. It does not sound like the maker would get upset and if he did, I feel that in this case you could talk things out.

As far as time, my experience has taught me to relax. I do enjoy honest and open communication. I will be getting some knives this year that have been anywhere from 3 to 6 years on order. During that time the makers have stayed in touch with me and we have made choices that have evolved at the same time during all this friendships have become stronger. Those friendships as well as friendships with makers whose work I happen not to own are a tremendous part of the enjoyment of this hobby to me.

When you get into the situation where the wait is more than a few months which seems to be the case for me now days, it is easy to see how difficult it is to actually give a concrete date.

I do appreciate the folks who stay in communication with you the whole time. It is easier to understand that a knife will be late when you know that the maker you choose might be starting up a business, participating in factory collaborations or might be going though any number of unexpected things (illness, death in family, fire in shop etc) that will change their schedule.

As collectors, we also need to keep in mind that shows and having something to sell at a show are important to makers and long term success. There are of course makers that can go to shows and take orders without having a single knife to sell and do well, but there are obvious reasons for their success.

I guess my advice is to relax and enjoy the ride. Like Les I have never had a knife on order for a decent period of time (Even from first year makers) that came in on time. Try not to let it bother you.
When I think about it, I am not going to tell a maker who might be working on something for me when they are in the mood to do something out of the ordinary to hurry-up :D.
 
You guys made some excellent points and I wish to thank you.

I returned form the states and have to work my a$$ to get on top of things - but had to say just this:

Thank you for your kind and strait forward answers and advice.

Les, Gus, DDR and the rest - your sound advice is well taken.

I decided to go for the original order and let the maker get it to me later this year (I hope)

I did not put any pressure on him, as I always believed it is bad to put pressure on custom makers - they have to do it their way and in their time...

He was kind enough to offer a price reduction for the hassle.

BTW - Les knows who I am talking about, and I heard him make a smart remark on his account which I will not repeat...it was funny and in good nature though...
 
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