Intro welders and 220v questions

R

running bird

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Sep 29, 2015
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I’ve been meaning to get a simple welder for doing some very basic welding for a while now. I’ve been put off by reviews I see on some of the cheap flux core welders that run on 110v. I saw some consistent complaints of most of them pulling amps that go beyond what a normal 110v outlet can handle. The garage in our new rental has great wiring, tons of outlets, lots of circuits on the breaker. And most importantly a single 220v outlet, I only just found it after being in the garage every weekend for 2 months now.

The 220v outlet looks almost exactly like the drier outlet in the house. Is there any way for me to check the amp rating on the outlet?

Normally I’d just opt for a 110v tool and deal with the limitations, but now I actually have the capacity to use something bigger. I’d be using a welder for making hardy tools and occasionally welding up some mild clad San Mai. Not sure what the minimum rated welder for that application would be. I think id like to stick to welders that run wire for ease of use… my “welding” knowledge doesn’t go beyond soldering copper and silver so I could be very wrong in that assumption.

Kevin
 
I think the configuration of the outlet will tell you how many amps it is, as long as it was installed correctly.

Hoss
 
The breaker(s) should tell you the amps for the circuit.
I used a Millermatic 110V MIG welder to do all my welding for the dies for my press, billets for damascus, etc. The dies withstood 23 tons of pressure, so the welds seemed okay. (I did manage to crack a weld on a die someone else made, so I was pretty happy with my efforts.) The welds were much less ugly when I went to using gas instead of flux core wire. That machine required a 20 amp circuit, though.
220 draws half the amps. Much better to go that route if you have the outlet.
That said, the little 110 flux core would probably do all you need in a knife shop. I know a number of makers, that's all they use. But it does have its limits. And, like having a milling machine, you'll always find a need for the next size up.
I'd go 220 on this one, and get one that's gas-ready.
 
Be aware that many welders draw a good amount of current at the higher settings. My Milti-Matic clone welder needs a 220V 40-amp socket.
 
Most likely 50A, but you can only be sure if you find the breaker. You might still overload it though, say if a couple of people charge their EVs using 220V on a parallel outlet while you are welding.
 
If you get a wire welder be sure to get one that can run on gas too, the welding difference between gas and flux core are day and night. The kind of outlet your referring to in a typical house is either 30 amp for a clothes dryer or 50 amp for an oven-range unless someone added that at some time for something else. When looking at mig welders look at the ratings for it, thickness of steel it’s capable of and amperage draw the welder will take to run. a 90 amp welder doesn’t require 90 amps to run it.
 
I really like the combo MIG/TIG/stick units. The tank of argon isn't a lot and the difference between FCAW (flux core wire) and GMAW (argon gas) is a lot. The newer units have computer controls and pretty much tell you what to set them at. Some will set the parameters automatically with you imputing the metal, thickness, and weld type.

For a home shop, the HF clone of the Miller Multi-Matic 220 welder is a good deal. It is half the price.
 
Thanks for the advice everyone.

I cleared out some stuff to get to the outlet, after cleaning the dirt off the outlet it says 20a-250v. Double checked the breaker just to be sure and all the switches on it say 20a, except for a strip of lights that are on a 15a. The 250v socket is a little different then i thought it was when I first saw it, just looks like an oversized 110.

https://imgur.com/a/eMXV4xZ
 
Yea, that outlet is more like what you would see for a window shaker a/c unit. I have three 220v ones like that in my shop, two for grinders and one for a heat treat oven.
there all connected to 30 amp breakers. I don't know much about the bigger and newer mig welders but if I was in the market I'd buy the highest output amperage I could comfortably afford.
right now I just have a 35 year old Century 110 v 90 amp gas mig and while it works great it has it's limitations. I think it has a 20% duty rating which means you can only "or should" weld for two min. out of ten min. so when shopping for a welder check for duty rating too. industrial welders are 100% duty rating, meaning non stop welding.
 
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I'll agree by saying that is a 15-20Amp 220v plug. I'm not an electrician, but I run the metal shop of a makerspace in a 100+y/o building and we recently had the place rewired, and we now have a few of these in the shop for lower amp 220V machines (like the air dehumidifier unit on a member's CNC mill).
 
That's the kind of plug you'll want for a 2*72 so at least you have that going for you. I got the tooliom welder on prime day like 18 months ago and it was like $200. It's dual voltage and solid state non programmable so you don't have to get in the weeds on settings. You can run it 110 or 220 and I run it 110 90% of the time. If I remember correctly it's 120A or 180A depending on voltage. I do have a trailblazer 275 if I really need to do actual welding.

It comes with MiG gas/flux and stick set up (never used) and for like 100$ you can add lift tig. (I use it as a fusion welder for sanmai) It works fine for almost everything I do in the forge and it has reversible +/-. (for running flux core) If I'm not mistaken the HF doesn't have that option. But harbor freight does have extended warranty and in store service. The cheapo Chinese stuff you're on your own. YouTube is your friend. Watch a lot of videos and reviews. ProjectFarm has a good welder review.
 
aareeyesee said:
That's the kind of plug you'll want for a 2*72 so at least you have that going for you. I got the tooliom welder on prime day like 18 months ago and it was like $200. It's dual voltage and solid state non programmable so you don't have to get in the weeds on settings. You can run it 110 or 220 and I run it 110 90% of the time. If I remember correctly it's 120A or 180A depending on voltage. I do have a trailblazer 275 if I really need to do actual welding.

It comes with MiG gas/flux and stick set up (never used) and for like 100$ you can add lift tig. (I use it as a fusion welder for sanmai) It works fine for almost everything I do in the forge and it has reversible +/-. (for running flux core) If I'm not mistaken the HF doesn't have that option. But harbor freight does have extended warranty and in store service. The cheapo Chinese stuff you're on your own. YouTube is your friend. Watch a lot of videos and reviews. ProjectFarm has a good welder review.
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So the 20a on this 250v plug is going to be too low for a dedicated 220v welder? If I get one that runs 110 and 220 I assume I needs to be in a 110 outlet to run 110 safely?

And what is the difference between the 110 and 220 modes considering I only have 20a and couldn’t run them for more than a few min?
 
bladegrinder said:
Yea, that outlet is more like what you would see for a window shaker a/c unit. I have three 220v ones like that in my shop, two for grinders and one for a heat treat oven.
there all connected to 30 amp breakers. I don't know much about the bigger and newer mig welders but if I was in the market I'd buy the highest output amperage I could comfortably afford.
right now I just have a 35 year old Century 110 v 90 amp gas mig and while it works great it has it's limitations. I think it has a 20% duty rating which means you can only "or should" weld for two min. out of ten min. so when shopping for a welder check for duty rating too. industrial welders are 100% duty rating, meaning non stop welding.
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Is the limit on the duty rating considering the time you’re actually welding? If I needed to weld for longer than what would be safe do I just wait for a couple of minutes In between?
 
Hopefully someone with more welder knowledge will chime in but yes that what it means, but… I believe that’s for the highest power setting too. Mine has four settings and I usually run mine on the #2 or 3 setting and stick with the 2 min. Weld, 8 min. Rest, that might be why it still works after 35 years.
 
bladegrinder said:
Hopefully someone with more welder knowledge will chime in but yes that what it means, but… I believe that’s for the highest power setting too. Mine has four settings and I usually run mine on the #2 or 3 setting and stick with the 2 min. Weld, 8 min. Rest, that might be why it still works after 35 years.
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Most owner's manuals will include information on the duty cycle for the machine. Here's a copy of the duty cycle for our Miller 211 MIG welder. As you can see, it can run 100% duty cycle on 220V when welding at or below 100amp output, but on a 110V 20A circuit, it can run 100% only up to 85-90amp output. At 130 amp output, the duty cycle is only 10% on 110V, but ~ 55% on 220V.
7Ekjd9u.jpg
 
For what it is worth being Australian with 240v as standard.

Started on transformer welders for home use with 15 amp plugs and at work 415v 3 phase unit's.

From memory the home unit was limited to 140 amps at 20% duty cycle it is now 44 years old.

New machine is an inverter that runs from a15 amp plug and can output 160 amps at 60% duty cycle and can be used for TIG and plasma and is 1/4 the size of the old unit.

MIG with gas will cover most things a blade maker will want to do.
 
I didn't mention the new small inverter MIG welders. They are low in price and really portable.
I got a small Chinese one that is like Brad mentioned (MIG/TIG/Stick/Plasma) for quick welds out of the shop. I picked it up NIB for $5 at the local Treasure Hunt Liquidators, which is where the returns from Amazon and other places go. All that was wrong was the stick lead was missing.

I use it in the forge area regularly. 120V wall plug works fine.
For a knife task like welding on a tang extension, adding a handle to a billet, or tacking up a billet, it is all you need. It is also great for fixing a broken part on the lawn tractor or other yard equipment. I use it with flux-core .030" wire, no gas. It does fine for what I want it to do. Not the prettiest welds ever made (probably me more than the machine), but more than strong enough. I've welded 1/4" thick welds that held up fine.

Places like Harbor Freight and the online shopping giants sell simple MIG inverter units, which are all you need for most knife work. They run around $150 for a 125-amp unit. Look up, "Titanium 125" at HF.

TIP for flux-core and stick welds- get a spray can of anti-spatter to make clean up easier. You don't want any of those little welding metal spatter balls on a blade (especially if it will be forged later). They will show up as dark spots.

TIP #2:
Got a nut on a lawn tractor or other tool that constantly rattles lose and falls off. Just give it a quick tack weld to the bolt and it will stay there. If you ever need to remove the nut, juts give it a quick grind with an angle grinder or a couple strokes with a file.
 
running bird said:
So the 20a on this 250v plug is going to be too low for a dedicated 220v welder? If I get one that runs 110 and 220 I assume I needs to be in a 110 outlet to run 110 safely?

And what is the difference between the 110 and 220 modes considering I only have 20a and couldn’t run them for more than a few min?
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You most likely won't find a welder with that plug and it's not something I wouldn't encourage trying to get an adapter for. I have an adapter for my tooliom from a nema 14-50 to 6-50 but all that does is drop the neutral. And I very rarely use 220 anyway. If you did some research you may find that you can adapt your nema6-20 to a nema 1-15 on a dual voltage welder for higher duty cycle but with the type of work we're taking about duty cycle is a non issue. Light welding on billets, maybe some black smith tool making, it runs fine on all that. When I'm in the forge it's very rare the Miller gets started up.

Edit- Most 220 welders are gonna want a 30 or 50 amp plug. I don't recall ever seeing a 20 amp plug on a 220 welder but I'm sure they exist cause EU doesn't even have 110 I don't believe.
 
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Thanks guys, I ended up ordering the 110v Tooliom. Was on sale for a bit less than $100 with a coupon so I jumped on it.

I’ll at least keep that outlet I found in mind for the future if another tool is better fitted for it than a welder.
 
Which model number did you order? Some of those 110 models often need a 30-amp circuit.
 
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